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Get rid of the laws and let the humans run wild!

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Outcome of no laws? (after change period has elapsed.)
Anarchy 61%  61%  [ 20 ]
Peace 9%  9%  [ 3 ]
Never ending Transition (bit of both) 30%  30%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 33

DC
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26 Jun 2012, 9:49 pm

SilverStar wrote:
My idea of freedom is:
People are free to do whatever they want, as long as they don't cause problems for someone else.


That philosophical nugget stems from John Stuart Mill's classical liberalism. "Your rights end where his nose begins."

It is also the founding moral principle of wicca interestingly enough, "If it harms none, do as you will"



Joker
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26 Jun 2012, 9:50 pm

DC wrote:
SilverStar wrote:
My idea of freedom is:
People are free to do whatever they want, as long as they don't cause problems for someone else.


That philosophical nugget stems from John Stuart Mill's classical liberalism. "Your rights end where his nose begins."

It is also the founding moral principle of wicca interestingly enough, "If it harms none, do as you will"


I like the idea but their are people in this world that desire to cause harm.



edgewaters
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26 Jun 2012, 9:55 pm

Joker wrote:
I do believe too much freedom with give a rise to people abusing their freedoms to do things. But your right 8)


People abuse freedoms not because of how many or how few they have, but because of the ideas they have about freedoms. Some think it means do whatever I feel like, take no responsibility for my actions etc. Some think with rights come responsibilities. Which ideal people hold, and which is more dominant in the society, determines whether freedoms will be abused or not. Not how much freedom they have. Americans, for instance, currently have fairly minimal freedoms but they manage to abuse the few they still have left like they're going out of style (which is perhaps exactly what's happening).



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26 Jun 2012, 10:03 pm

edgewaters wrote:
Joker wrote:
I do believe too much freedom with give a rise to people abusing their freedoms to do things. But your right 8)


People abuse freedoms not because of how many or how few they have, but because of the ideas they have about freedoms. Some think it means do whatever I feel like, take no responsibility for my actions etc. Some think with rights come responsibilities. Which ideal people hold, and which is more dominant in the society, determines whether freedoms will be abused or not. Not how much freedom they have. Americans, for instance, currently have fairly minimal freedoms but they manage to abuse the few they still have left like they're going out of style (which is perhaps exactly what's happening).


That is America for you a country that is a living fallacy.



DC
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26 Jun 2012, 10:17 pm

Joker wrote:
DC wrote:
SilverStar wrote:
My idea of freedom is:
People are free to do whatever they want, as long as they don't cause problems for someone else.


That philosophical nugget stems from John Stuart Mill's classical liberalism. "Your rights end where his nose begins."

It is also the founding moral principle of wicca interestingly enough, "If it harms none, do as you will"


I like the idea but their are people in this world that desire to cause harm.


Classical liberalism has no problem with having a police force or laws, in fact the harm principle can easily justify things like regulation of drink driving or pollution or restriction of dangerous drugs.



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26 Jun 2012, 10:22 pm

DC wrote:
Joker wrote:
DC wrote:
SilverStar wrote:
My idea of freedom is:
People are free to do whatever they want, as long as they don't cause problems for someone else.


That philosophical nugget stems from John Stuart Mill's classical liberalism. "Your rights end where his nose begins."

It is also the founding moral principle of wicca interestingly enough, "If it harms none, do as you will"


I like the idea but their are people in this world that desire to cause harm.


Classical liberalism has no problem with having a police force or laws, in fact the harm principle can easily justify things like regulation of drink driving or pollution or restriction of dangerous drugs.


Very true most americans called it socialism or something stupid when their freedoms are taken such a moronic country to live in.



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26 Jun 2012, 10:32 pm

True freedom is unattainable, now Self-Ownership is. With the idea of self ownership you have the freedom to do ANYTHING you want, anything you heart desires, UNLESS it interferes with someone elses freedom, there needs to be regulation for that because you cant just count on humans, who happen to be some of the dumbest animals around, to not take your freedom away. But government has abused their power, America was supposed to have self ownership but the government SLOWLY took it away until we stopped caring.


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26 Jun 2012, 10:38 pm

Freedom can some times be dangerous their has to be limits on what we can and can not do.



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26 Jun 2012, 10:40 pm

edgewaters wrote:
Joker wrote:
I do believe too much freedom with give a rise to people abusing their freedoms to do things. But your right 8)


People abuse freedoms not because of how many or how few they have, but because of the ideas they have about freedoms. Some think it means do whatever I feel like, take no responsibility for my actions etc. Some think with rights come responsibilities. Which ideal people hold, and which is more dominant in the society, determines whether freedoms will be abused or not. Not how much freedom they have. Americans, for instance, currently have fairly minimal freedoms but they manage to abuse the few they still have left like they're going out of style (which is perhaps exactly what's happening).


I brought this up to my friends a few weeks back, how even though we claim to be the mythical "Land of the Free", out of ALL Western First World Countries we have the least amount of freedom


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26 Jun 2012, 10:41 pm

TheKing wrote:
edgewaters wrote:
Joker wrote:
I do believe too much freedom with give a rise to people abusing their freedoms to do things. But your right 8)


People abuse freedoms not because of how many or how few they have, but because of the ideas they have about freedoms. Some think it means do whatever I feel like, take no responsibility for my actions etc. Some think with rights come responsibilities. Which ideal people hold, and which is more dominant in the society, determines whether freedoms will be abused or not. Not how much freedom they have. Americans, for instance, currently have fairly minimal freedoms but they manage to abuse the few they still have left like they're going out of style (which is perhaps exactly what's happening).


I brought this up to my friends a few weeks back, how even though we claim to be the mythical "Land of the Free", out of ALL Western First World Countries we have the least amount of freedom


People in Europe have the same freedoms we do.



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26 Jun 2012, 10:41 pm

I see anarchy has the lead.
WTF are you people thinking?
You all bi+ch about bullying, meanness, hate, and intolerance, and whatever and at the same time you want to open the doors of hell.
You won't realize how much you love rule of law until it's gone and you really do find out what bullying, meanness, ect. is like when it goes totally unchecked.
:roll:



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26 Jun 2012, 10:46 pm

Raptor wrote:
I see anarchy has the lead.
WTF are you people thinking?
You all bi+ch about bullying, meanness, hate, and intolerance, and whatever and at the same time you want to open the doors of hell.
You won't realize how much you love rule of law until it's gone and you really do find out what bullying, meanness, ect. is like when it goes totally unchecked.
:roll:


Very True :wink:



DC
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26 Jun 2012, 10:47 pm

Joker wrote:
Freedom can some times be dangerous their has to be limits on what we can and can not do.


And as a guiding moral basis for what should or shouldn't be allowed, I think the harm principle is the best thing us humans have devised yet.

Does pollution from your coal plant have a detrimental effect on other people's health?
If yes, legislate against it.
If no, carry on.

Does gay marriage cause harm to anyone else?
If yes, don't allow it.
If no, allow it.

Is you becoming a heroin addict very likely to lead to you beating up old grannies to feed your habit?
If yes, ban heroin.
If no, shoot up and drop out.



TheKing
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26 Jun 2012, 10:48 pm

Raptor wrote:
I see anarchy has the lead.
WTF are you people thinking?
You all bi+ch about bullying, meanness, hate, and intolerance, and whatever and at the same time you want to open the doors of hell.
You won't realize how much you love rule of law until it's gone and you really do find out what bullying, meanness, ect. is like when it goes totally unchecked.
:roll:


And those of us on the spectrum are at a serious disadvantage in the wild, in a worldof natural selection, unfortunately, we are unfit for survival, we only survive today because we have intellect so we usually excel in academic fields. Academics dont mean sh!7 out in the wild, those jocks who bullied us would be more fit to survive, and they would. They always get the girls now, just imagine if we were in the wild where our existence actually depended on breeding, we would get laid less than we do now! Honestly!


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TheKing
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26 Jun 2012, 10:52 pm

DC wrote:
Joker wrote:
Freedom can some times be dangerous their has to be limits on what we can and can not do.


And as a guiding moral basis for what should or shouldn't be allowed, I think the harm principle is the best thing us humans have devised yet.

Does pollution from your coal plant have a detrimental effect on other people's health?
If yes, legislate against it.
If no, carry on.

Does gay marriage cause harm to anyone else?
If yes, don't allow it.
If no, allow it.

Is you becoming a heroin addict very likely to lead to you beating up old grannies to feed your habit?
If yes, ban heroin.
If no, shoot up and drop out.


Im sorry to break it to you, but there is no such thing as a coal plant. Coal is naturally made from dead plants and animals, its impossible to plant a piece of coal and grow a coal tree, if you could than it wouldnt be nonrenewable energy. Personally i advocate renewable energy simply because its renewable and nonrenewable is as the name implies nonrenewable, so we need to stop using something that will run out before we run out of it.


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Joker
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26 Jun 2012, 10:53 pm

DC wrote:
Joker wrote:
Freedom can some times be dangerous their has to be limits on what we can and can not do.


And as a guiding moral basis for what should or shouldn't be allowed, I think the harm principle is the best thing us humans have devised yet.

Does pollution from your coal plant have a detrimental effect on other people's health?
If yes, legislate against it.
If no, carry on.

Does gay marriage cause harm to anyone else?
If yes, don't allow it.
If no, allow it.

Is you becoming a heroin addict very likely to lead to you beating up old grannies to feed your habit?
If yes, ban heroin.
If no, shoot up and drop out.


I understand the point you are making but others will argue against it ahh Freedom can be such a b***h :lol: