Many German Christians now quit church to avoid paying tax

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OK, because Fnord is bitter with religion, they should fall by the way side because Fnord says so.

Also, political parties are non-profits and not taxed, too. Organizations that promote sexuality (ie, pro or anti-homosexual) are also not taxed, too.

'Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.' John 6:53 (KJV)

Seems such commodity does exist.

No, they should fall by the wayside because they are antiquated past their point of useful benefit.


Then tax them too! Any organization that receives money from donations should be taxed as much as any other money-grubbing corporation.


Do you really believe a collection of largely apocryphal tales to be true? Do you really believe that nibbling on a cookie and taking a sip of juice will get you into Heaven? Do you really believe that spending a few hours in a drafty old hall with a hundred or so sleepy, grumpy strangers is worth surrendering a tenth of your gross salary?

Really?

Any organization that tries to teach its members, "That which is hateful to you, do not do to others," is not entirely devoid of useful benefit.

You don't have to believe in the supernatural to see a benefit in religion. Time and again I have seen patients take comfort from the ministry of clergy who attempt to do nothing more than help them cope with the conflicted emotions of terminal illness. No proselysing, no ritual, just plain old giving comfort to the sick.

When religion attempts to become political, then I have a problem with it. But so long as religion confines itself to teaching its members, and to charitable works, I see no good reason for them to fall by the wayside.

Okay, I can agree with all that.

But to paraphrase Steven Weinberg: "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." I can also agree with this.

You characterize people disposing of their own money in a way that they choose as a tax expenditure? You have it backwards. The money belongs to the people who earn and tax is taken by force from people by the government. It is legalized theft and extortion. It is a legal protection racket.

ruveyn

You're being disingenuous again. I don't characterize people disposing of their money as a tax expenditure. I characterize government disposing of tax room as a tax expendtiure. All I have said is that giving people a deduction from taxable income, or a tax credit to reflect charitable contributions is a tax expenditure. Government spends tax room in order to provide a benefit to people who give money to things that the government approves of.

And for the record, the money only belongs to the people as long as the law says that it does. The moment that the law says that someone else has a claim on it, its conversion to that someone else is perfectly legal.

"Legalized theft," is an oxymoron the use of which makes you look far stupider than you are.

They do so. So its a tax, but its not collected from the government or officials, but its all done by the church officials. You are also not forced to pay it, so you can easily quit by leaving the church, its a one page document you can download as pdf, sign it, sent it via Emails to the officials of your area and your out of church. My partner has already done so. The priests themselves are also not so mad about it, so if you left church you are still allowed to visit rituals of others (birthritual, marriage, funeral) or church activities like street markets and so on.

So leaving the curch has the only effect, that you cant do such rituals for your own. (Example: If you are in church and die, then there is normally a fair with priest in the church, after that the people accompy the remains and the coffin of the died one with the priest to the graveyard, there the priest will again do 1-2 small prayers (or more if there had been no fair before.) and then people will start to burry the cuffin as it is ritual at our area.) If you are not in church there is simply no fair in the church, but every graveyard normally has a nice commemoration hall, that is offered to anyone for religious (if you are not catholic and so cant use the church) or nonreligious (atheist funeral)causes. Instead of the fair and the prayers you normally have close relatives and friends talking about the one that has died, afterwartds the cuffin get accompanied to the graveyard spot, instead of the 2 priest prayers a relative or friend will say official Goodbye and after that the cuffin will be burried as it is tradition.

So leaving the curch is no big thing, it doesnt mean that you are refused to visit other person weddings or funerals in church, you even can visit church activities, your children can go to scouts, ..., so absolutely noone is forced to pay that tax and a one page document with your signing on it is enough to quit.

Because of the church collecting the tax themselves, and not by official governments, its as I said no problem if you cant pay for a while. When I had no job some years ago, I simply phoned them about it, sent them a copy of my "social office" documents as a proof for me being actual without work, and it was ok for them. So I found some work 4 weeks later, but was released for 6 months of church tax, and also didnt have to pay it back. So its called tax, but they are very moderate about it and if you cant pay, then you cant pay.

As it can be seen in other threads, I am not religious in the meaning that I believe in magic or whatever, but the basic of the christian believe, specially the new testament and Jesus (Only because I dont think that he was a gods son, doesnt mean that he doesnt exist.), is something I highly appreciate. Additional I am also in architecture and some of our oldest buildings in europe are military buildings as old fortresses and churches and chapels, because these were made of stone and so endured. So if religious or not, I think a 1000 year old chapel should be something that needs to be protected, and the protection and restauration of such old buildings simply needs money. Its simply a cultural treasure that should be inherited to our kids as well. I also agree with the charity part of the church.

But because of me being nonreligious, I am pretty happy, that I can give them my money simply with tax, and that I am not forced to waste my sundays with visiting church or fairs. XD Would be pretty weird if I entered church during fair, telling "Sorry, I dont believe in the magic part, but can I leaev my charity money somewhere?"