MarketAndChurch wrote:
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quote="GnosticBishop"]Is hell a good representation of Romans 12:21?
God cannot create good people who will not sin. A slight glitch in God’s creative technique that believers attribute to his giving us free will. Out our free will does not include our ability to choose not to sin. This is obvious as we are told that we are all born sinners and that all of us are condemned because of this glitch. If even one of us could not sin, we would all know about it.
While reading, I came across this verse. Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
Hell is not usually considered a good thing.
Further, we are told that we are to emulate God in all ways. Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
If this is so, should we, in seeking to be as perfect as God, ignore Romans 12:21 and do as God does and return evil for evil?
If God does not follow his own good advice, does that mean that we do not need to either?
Should we be following Romans 12:21 and ignoring Matthew 5:48 or following Matthew 5:48 and ignoring Romans 12:21. Clearly we cannot follow both as they are contradicting each other.
Should God return good for evil or should he return evil for evil?
Regards
DL
Out of curiosity OP, when does God return evil for evil?
I mentioned hell as his worst evil being our reward for being evil ion his eyes so unless you think hell is something good, you should agree that God is returning evil for evil.
You can also look anywhere where God is shown to kill or have someone killed because the good return would be to cure while the evil return would be to kill.
This link gives a few other examples.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdIQuote:
And the ideal isn't to be like God, because we're not, but to be what God wants of us.
Is God your father?
If he is your creator then yes he is.
As above so below.
Are you a father?
If so, and even if not I think you can speculate, then tell us, do you want your child to exceed whatever level of excellence you have reached?
I certainly do for my children.
What makes you think God would want less for his children?
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By the way, I think the Christian narrative is original sin, that we're all born with... I think a more mature view that better sells the theme of that message is that we're all born with a fallen, imperfect nature that isn't evil, but is certainly not good either. It's a tad immoral to burden a newborn with the sins of those who came before it. Adam's sin is Adam's.
Jews, who wrote the myth of Eden, do not recognize Original Sin or the fall of man. Their interpretation is that of Eden being our place of elevation, where we, as God himself says in scriptures, they have become as Gods etc.
Original sin is a foolish and immoral concept , as you seem to recognize. Now wonder why Christianity came up with it. False guilt and money are the likely reason as well as to denigrate women via Eves mistake.
Regards
DL
I don't see how Hell is evil. If you tortured and maimed and killed others, or did things that ruined others peoples lives or brought many grief and broken hearts, you don't deserve the same post-reality as someone who didn't do those things. A God who allowed everyone to enjoy the same good reality would in fact be a cruel God who doesn't care how we treat one another during this lifetime.
God wants us to succeed but he's not stupid enough to demand moral perfection. That's not the way he made us, and he acknowledged that we were an imperfect creation who, while we are to struggle with our imperfections and try to reflect our divine half then our animal half, but also that we can never be like God. Such efforts are not only unsustainable and immature, but lead to dangerous consequences.
By the way I think Original Sin originated with St. Augustine though I could be wrong. It's not healthy, and I don't think it's necessary. Eve didn't make a mistake either, in my view, but that's for another discussion. (I defended her here if you're interested:
20 Aug 2015, 11:12 pm
