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What do poor people want?

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RetroGamer87
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17 Nov 2016, 4:58 pm

Aspiegaming wrote:
Poor people want representatives who don't send out subtle messages telling them why they should learn to love their poverty or drop dead.
What are these subtle messages?


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Last edited by RetroGamer87 on 17 Nov 2016, 6:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Starfoxx
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17 Nov 2016, 5:14 pm

In my view poor people are after freedom. Money brings freedom but it's not the money people truly want it's what it brings.



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17 Nov 2016, 6:12 pm

AJisHere wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Here's one common criticism of socialism I keep hearing: "Socialists don't care about what poor people want. They only care about what they think poor people should want."


I am both poor and a Socialist. What do you say to that?

Lots of poor people are socialists ... but there are also plenty of poor people who supported Cruz in the Republican primaries.

We need to figure out why this happens because it is one of the biggest problems with America. So many poor people vote against their class interests.


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17 Nov 2016, 6:29 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Aspiegaming wrote:
Poor people want representatives who don't send out subtle messages telling them why they should learn to love their poverty or drop dead.
What are these subtle messages?


Defunding or completely eliminating benefits programs designed to help the struggling class and using whatever excuse they have like budget reform, fraud, or whatever.
Weakening or destroying regulations for consumer protections.
The trickle down scam. It exists to sell false hope while robbing the foolish blind. All that's gonna rain down from the skies above is pisswater with the properties of acid.
Striking down minimum wage.
Keeping the masses fearful, hate-filled, and uninformed, gullible enough to keep voting against their best interests thus keeping those GOP devils in office.

Say the country's government doesn't work by breaking it then give the keys to plutocrats saying they can do better.


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Last edited by Aspiegaming on 17 Nov 2016, 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

androbot01
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17 Nov 2016, 6:49 pm

The economy assumes that everyone is equally able to participate, but I know this is not the case. Government has to accept that not all people will be competitive.



AJisHere
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18 Nov 2016, 12:56 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Lots of poor people are socialists ... but there are also plenty of poor people who supported Cruz in the Republican primaries.

We need to figure out why this happens because it is one of the biggest problems with America. So many poor people vote against their class interests.


The old go-to for some Marxists was "false consciousness", but I think that's a simplistic idea and a bit insulting and disingenuous. I'm sure something akin to it is applicable for some, but it doesn't explain how in our current Information Age people are not more aware of the issues they face. A more likely explanation in my view is that people are aware of how the system they live in disadvantages them, but they either believe that they can claw their way up through hard work or they believe that their problems are simply insoluble.


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18 Nov 2016, 2:22 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
AJisHere wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Here's one common criticism of socialism I keep hearing: "Socialists don't care about what poor people want. They only care about what they think poor people should want."


I am both poor and a Socialist. What do you say to that?

Lots of poor people are socialists ... but there are also plenty of poor people who supported Cruz in the Republican primaries.

We need to figure out why this happens because it is one of the biggest problems with America. So many poor people vote against their class interests.

Economic issues isn't the sole concern for poor people. There you go figured out. Poor people enjoy freedom, democrats are the anti freedom party so those poor people voted against them.



sly279
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18 Nov 2016, 2:23 am

Aspiegaming wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Aspiegaming wrote:
Poor people want representatives who don't send out subtle messages telling them why they should learn to love their poverty or drop dead.
What are these subtle messages?


Defunding or completely eliminating benefits programs designed to help the struggling class and using whatever excuse they have like budget reform, fraud, or whatever.
Weakening or destroying regulations for consumer protections.
The trickle down scam. It exists to sell false hope while robbing the foolish blind. All that's gonna rain down from the skies above is pisswater with the properties of acid.
Striking down minimum wage.
Keeping the masses fearful, hate-filled, and uninformed, gullible enough to keep voting against their best interests thus keeping those GOP devils in office.

Say the country's government doesn't work by breaking it then give the keys to plutocrats saying they can do better.

The part about eliminating benifits programs is concerning, I can only hope cooler heads prevail



RetroGamer87
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18 Nov 2016, 6:02 am

sly279 wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
AJisHere wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Here's one common criticism of socialism I keep hearing: "Socialists don't care about what poor people want. They only care about what they think poor people should want."


I am both poor and a Socialist. What do you say to that?
Lots of poor people are socialists ... but there are also plenty of poor people who supported Cruz in the Republican primaries.

We need to figure out why this happens because it is one of the biggest problems with America. So many poor people vote against their class interests.
Economic issues isn't the sole concern for poor people. There you go figured out. Poor people enjoy freedom, democrats are the anti freedom party so those poor people voted against them.
Right you are!


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18 Nov 2016, 6:07 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
sly279 wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
AJisHere wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Here's one common criticism of socialism I keep hearing: "Socialists don't care about what poor people want. They only care about what they think poor people should want."


I am both poor and a Socialist. What do you say to that?
Lots of poor people are socialists ... but there are also plenty of poor people who supported Cruz in the Republican primaries.

We need to figure out why this happens because it is one of the biggest problems with America. So many poor people vote against their class interests.
Economic issues isn't the sole concern for poor people. There you go figured out. Poor people enjoy freedom, democrats are the anti freedom party so those poor people voted against them.
Right you are!


He is, but that doesn't explain why you've turned into Yoda.



DarthMetaKnight
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18 Nov 2016, 11:12 am

sly279 wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
AJisHere wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Here's one common criticism of socialism I keep hearing: "Socialists don't care about what poor people want. They only care about what they think poor people should want."


I am both poor and a Socialist. What do you say to that?

Lots of poor people are socialists ... but there are also plenty of poor people who supported Cruz in the Republican primaries.

We need to figure out why this happens because it is one of the biggest problems with America. So many poor people vote against their class interests.

Economic issues isn't the sole concern for poor people. There you go figured out. Poor people enjoy freedom, democrats are the anti freedom party so those poor people voted against them.


I don't know what you mean, given that freedom can be defined in over 9000 different ways.


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sly279
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18 Nov 2016, 4:00 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
sly279 wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
AJisHere wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Here's one common criticism of socialism I keep hearing: "Socialists don't care about what poor people want. They only care about what they think poor people should want."


I am both poor and a Socialist. What do you say to that?

Lots of poor people are socialists ... but there are also plenty of poor people who supported Cruz in the Republican primaries.

We need to figure out why this happens because it is one of the biggest problems with America. So many poor people vote against their class interests.

Economic issues isn't the sole concern for poor people. There you go figured out. Poor people enjoy freedom, democrats are the anti freedom party so those poor people voted against them.


I don't know what you mean, given that freedom can be defined in over 9000 different ways.


The freedom to not have our rights infringed, to eat and drink what we want, to do legal things as we want.



androbot01
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18 Nov 2016, 4:04 pm

I think also to be able to improve oneself. Everyone needs to be progressing towards being better. If not through work, then through volunteering. I think it's really important that "poor" people remain connected to society. If the poor are written off, then a subculture develops. I can tell you from living in my building that this subculture is not necessarily pleasant.



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18 Nov 2016, 4:29 pm

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Another example, schools should teach things like basic programming and HTML. Why wait until college before learning that? Even a 12 year old can understand that stuff. They could teach it in middle school. Sometimes they do. There's a guy at my work who did HTML while he was at elementary school. This was at an expensive private school (another example of the poverty cycle). I went to school in a poor neighbourhood. They had low expectations of us. No programming or HTML classes available even in the last year of high school. Instead they had a class on data entry because that was the most they expected of us. No guidence at getting into college or uni, they didn't expect that of us either.


They should start college specialization at a much younger age - based on the student's choices and his/her competencies, there's a long phase of school which is really a big waste of time.



androbot01
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18 Nov 2016, 4:32 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
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Another example, schools should teach things like basic programming and HTML. Why wait until college before learning that? Even a 12 year old can understand that stuff. They could teach it in middle school. Sometimes they do. There's a guy at my work who did HTML while he was at elementary school. This was at an expensive private school (another example of the poverty cycle). I went to school in a poor neighbourhood. They had low expectations of us. No programming or HTML classes available even in the last year of high school. Instead they had a class on data entry because that was the most they expected of us. No guidence at getting into college or uni, they didn't expect that of us either.


They should start college specialization at a much younger age - based on the student's choices and his/her competencies, there's a long phase of school which is really a big waste of time.


Couldn't agree more, Boo.

They could end pubic education at Grade 8 easily in Canada. Anything beyond that is academic, yet we insist on kids learning stuff they will never use rather than train them to get on with it. At the same time, I think education should be available at all stages of life. People's skills and interests change over time and there should be training available to everyone.



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18 Nov 2016, 4:46 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Quote:
Another example, schools should teach things like basic programming and HTML. Why wait until college before learning that? Even a 12 year old can understand that stuff. They could teach it in middle school. Sometimes they do. There's a guy at my work who did HTML while he was at elementary school. This was at an expensive private school (another example of the poverty cycle). I went to school in a poor neighbourhood. They had low expectations of us. No programming or HTML classes available even in the last year of high school. Instead they had a class on data entry because that was the most they expected of us. No guidence at getting into college or uni, they didn't expect that of us either.


They should start college specialization at a much younger age - based on the student's choices and his/her competencies, there's a long phase of school which is really a big waste of time.

for some unknown perverse reason, America can't seem to do that, for the most part, except in wealthy school districts. there is great inequality in educational resources here, again based on income.