why do people bash islam but love christianity??

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In England the younger generation of Muslims are more politically charged than the older generation and they also tend to have more knowledge of Islam. The older generation are more supportive of secular democracy but their minds are corrupted by cultural influences from the Indian Subcontinent and they often have difficulty in telling apart what is Islam and what is Asian culture.

The tenets of Protestantism remain as a powerful influential force amongst the white British even if they are no longer Christian or are atheist. An example of this is the support of a strong work ethic and the vilification of people on benefits. Millions of British people work in miserable low paid jobs when they could earn more on benefits, but they work because they believe it is dignified and the right thing to do. There is also very little popular support for a citizen's income apart from amongst economically progressive types like myself.

I think it is because in modern society Islam is associated with terrorism.
Doing that is very wrong.

ruveyn,

Only about half of Islam calls for slaughtering the Jews, a bare half billion, compared to five million in Israel.

Just because millions of Jews died in Europe, between the time you were born, and I was born, has nothing to do with Islam.

Standing up for yourself and saying, "No, that is not going to happen" is hostile, racist, and not politically correct.

Getting along would cause the least problems for people not involved, meeting the other side half way, or more, is the modern way, which will bring "Peace in our time." Half the Jews slaughtered, half as slaves, and maybe Islam will not invade Europe, though I think it too late.

I had no idea Nevil Chamberlain was so currently popular.

This stuborn view of yours shows you might be a Southerner. Even a Redneck, speaking the truth as you see it, without holding an opinion poll first.

Appeasers forget it took The Song of Roland, El Cid, and Vlad the Impaler, to preserve Europe from Islam, back when it was much poorer and weaker. The Children's Crusade, sending the children of Europe as gifts, did not work.

When France looks like Syria, with a lack of Syrian resolve, to take back the country house by house, get in fights like taking islands away from the Japanese, where a quarter will die before reaching the beach, Islam will capture the heart of Europe, and spread.

History seems so far away to some, but it keeps coming back.

You are an opinionated elder old crank, keep up the good work.

Islam is a religion that explicitely order their members to kill the unbelievers. Yeap, if they really practice their beliefs, they'll do wave sticks. And they'll kill you with them.

Moderate islam doesn't exist because islam is not moderate by itself. You can disobey what Mohammad said, of course, as many christians don't really follow what Jesus said, but this case, you're not really being a true believer. What people call fundamentalists are just muslims that are behaving according to what Mohammad said. Nothing more.

No, Sahih Bukhari is:

Volume 5, Book 58, Number 148:

Narrated by Abu Said Al-Khudri

"Some people (i.e. the Jews of Bani bin Quraiza) agreed to accept the verdict of Sad bin Muadh so the Prophet sent for him (i.e. Sad bin Muadh). He came riding a donkey, and when he approached the Mosque, the Prophet said, "Get up for the best amongst you." or said, "Get up for your chief." Then the Prophet said, "O Sad! These people have agreed to accept your verdict." Sad said, "I judge that their warriors should be killed and their children and women should be taken as captives." The Prophet said, "You have given a judgment similar to Allah's Judgment (or the King's judgment)."

Volume 5, Book 59, Number 447:

Narrated by Abu Said Al-Khudri

The people of (Banu) Quraiza agreed to accept the verdict of Sad bin Mu'adh. So the Prophet sent for Sad, and the latter came (riding) a donkey and when he approached the Mosque, the Prophet said to the Ansar, "Get up for your chief or for the best among you." Then the Prophet said (to Sad)." These (i.e. Banu Quraiza) have agreed to accept your verdict." Sad said, "Kill their (men) warriors and take their offspring as captives, "On that the Prophet said, "You have judged according to Allah's Judgment," or said, "according to the King's judgment."

Source:
http://www.sahih-bukhari.com/Pages/Bukhari_5_58.php
http://www.sahih-bukhari.com/Pages/Bukhari_5_59.php


Well, then we are all inferior to organizations like Al-Qaeda, Al-Shabaab, Lashkar-E-Taiba, as their Salafi morality is strictly determined by The Prophet Muhammad, and him alone.


Guess what: The Five Pillars of Islam are also Al-Hadith (The Hadith of Gabriel), not Al-Quran. They, too, are based on Bukhari. You seem to have a very narrow concept of what Islam is compared to.. well, the vast majority of Muslims.

Anyway, here are the sources about the atheists and the apostates:

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:

Narrated by 'Ikrima

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:
Narrated by Abu Burda

Abu Musa said, "I came to the Prophet along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash'ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah's Apostle was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet said, 'O Abu Musa (O 'Abdullah bin Qais!).' I said, 'By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.' As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, 'We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or 'Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.'" The Prophet then sent Mu'adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu'adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, 'I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.'"

(My emphasis added)

Source:
http://www.sahih-bukhari.com/Pages/Bukhari_9_84.php


Except if those dictators happen to be Prophets. Then they can do what they please.


Well, you certainly seem to have overlooked how central the Hadith is to Islam, as per the Five Pillars statement above. I suppose you would be justified in doing so if you were only referring to Shia Muslims (but then you would have to include the Hadiths of the Imams instead), the small Ahmadiyya movement, or the even smaller Qu'ran Alone movement. For Sunni Muslims, however (who, according to a 2009 Pew Research study, make up 87-90 percent of the Muslim population in the world), the Hadith is is an integral part of the religion... After all, that's why it's called Sunni Islam.


Well, the vastly better human rights record for women in Christian-majority countries compared to Muslim-majority countries suggest that the former are much more better at historical contextualization than the latter.

This does not surprise me. Islam actually has a powerful inbuilt mechanism against historical contextualization, known as the prohibition of Bid‘ah (innovation). This is supported by Q 5:4, as well as numerous ahadith from the Kutub al-Sittah.

The most famous source is the following Mutawatir (massively transmitted) hadith:

Volume 1, Book 3, Number 106:

Narrated by 'Ali

The Prophet said, "Do not tell a lie against me for whoever tells a lie against me (intentionally) then he will surely enter the Hell-fire."

Source:
http://www.sahih-bukhari.com/Pages/Bukhari_1_03.php

This essentially makes it rather difficult to "contextualize" Islamic Scripture, as the charge of Bid'ah could easily be levelled against one who does so. Furthermore, the limited scope for Ijtihad in current Islamic theology makes it very difficult to introduce judgements which are not strictly based on Scripture.


By all means, fire away. But before you invest that minute in finding references, you might want to check out this recent study from Pew Research on the opinion about Sharia Law - By Muslims:

Overview:
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the- ... -overview/

And the opening statement summarized my point:

According to the survey findings, most Muslims believe sharia is the revealed word of God rather than a body of law developed by men based on the word of God. Muslims also tend to believe sharia has only one, true understanding, but this opinion is far from universal; in some countries, substantial minorities of Muslims believe sharia should be open to multiple interpretations. Religious commitment is closely linked to views about sharia: Muslims who pray several times a day are more likely to say sharia is the revealed word of God, to say that it has only one interpretation and to support the implementation of Islamic law in their country.

Full study:
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/w ... report.pdf

Parts of particular interest are pages 52-56 (views on prescribed punishment in Sharia - Hudud). It would seem that interpretations of Sharia are not quite as diverse as one would hope.


Ahem... You must have missed the punchline...



QED.

Hi there greb I have already done you a favor if you will click on the link here and see the true face of Jesus today and Mohammad making love to each other in spirit as one voice among many others that are the same as one...

Sweetheart Ruveyn take a look too you heart is old but not top old to melt and love again...

Inventor loves as much or more than anyone on this website...some people can't see his chariots of light....

http://foodpeopleloveandstuff.wordpress.com/

[30:23]
Sahih International
[Or] of those who have divided their religion and become sects, every faction rejoicing in what it has.

[23:52]
Sahih International
And indeed this, your religion, is one religion, and I am your Lord, so fear Me."

[23:53]
Sahih International
But the people divided their religion among them into sects - each faction, in what it has, rejoicing.

I heard once from my Mormon teacher about the story of babel. Where people wanted to build a tower to the heavens and reach God, they did and came close, then God smited them and split them into different tongues. Which makes me belive that we oscillate betweem globalization and separation, we are just ... I dont know.

But I'd like to have some peace, and maybe ignorance is bliss.

He sounds like a despotic dictator unworthy of respect.

The demand of your god "fear me" doesn't exactly inspire interest in your religion.

...OK. Look here.

Have you seen LOTR? Then that elven lady says that she does not want the ring because if she gets it then Sauron will not rule the world but she will and instead of having someone to fear you will have someone to love! It was not espcially beautiful the way it was protrayed. ... I actually believe that Islam is made to be broken. Because a bliever is one who blieves in the God and the last day. There is going to be an end.

Edit1: Gladriel and the ring
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spHEw2n9LwE

Edit2: This is life the video over here.
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt237257.html

Where could they have gotten such an idea?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamic_terrorist_attacks

I'm talking you about the precepts of Islam promoting violence and you post a link to a blog with poems???? What did you smoke???

By the way. Human Rights violations in the world. 2013.

From 12 main Human Right violators in 2013, 10 are muslim countries.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/1 ... 87960.html

[img][800:849]http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/269440/slide_269440_1879606_free.jpg[/img]

You gave the impression that Baháʾís were accepted by Muslims, I merely stating this is generally not the case. Even with moderates, they don't really agree with it. They can reconcile themselves with Christians, because the this tradition is used to validate Islam (even if they get theme totally wrong). They have no choice, Baháʾís invalidates what Muslims believe about the word.



I talked to literally dozens and dozens of Muslims in my time of many varieties and am cordial with them, I live in London (Tooting) this is hardly surprising, I literally 5 minutes walk from a mosque. What would names mean to you over the internet? I went to university in a very Asian university, which had Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Balkan, Saudi, Turkish Muslim, etc, etc. I walked in on the now banned Al Muhajiroun who were trying to indoctrinate one of the Muslim who live across the hall from me. This was in 2000.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Muhajiroun#NUS_ban



You are missing the point. I'm saying that moderates are appeasers who have their cake an eat it, where as extremist are the most honest about their faith. There are some notable exceptions, but these are in the minority. The biggest problem with Islam is the moderates, rather than the extremists. The extremist are a threat to us, but the moderates, do not deal with the issues in their religion, and the cry about being the most affected by it. Well this may be the case, but they continue to tolerate and appease, and not really deal with the theistic root of the religion, which is driving the extremist. Instead trying to pave over it, and being in denial.

In fact we have witnessed some of that here, and babbling and red herrings by wreck1 when faced with serious questions posed by Viper.

The reality is even in the moderate community, who don't share the extremists lifestyle, there is still a degree of political sympathy for their cause, and they make excuses for them regularly. This is to do with the "holding the conscience hostage" element in Islam, and the fact this is backed up by very real violence. After a while they start to a believe that this violence is the fault of others such of the west, like someone by who is abused, might start to believe that it is not the abusers fault.



Again you are not reading the language correctly. "You know where you stand" is a phrase, it means there is certainty on their position. they are straight forward.



I don't agree. I have researched this, and there is some small moment to doctrinally reform Islam. But you are talking about tiny groups of individuals. No mainstream mosque carried the moniker Reform Islam. Muslims still worship under the same mosques. These group are up against it, anything that poses a threat to Islam, is ostracized.

Ahmadiyya have been ostracized for years. They were actually the first mosque built in London, in response to persecution. Just recently Ahmadiyya a political candidate, was harassed by regulars from my local Sunni mosque, the meeting was stormed, and they basically refused to leave, and were letting a loose tirade of hate fill bile. Most of these people are just average Joe, in terms of Muslim. I meet to them all the time, they have double standards, they are not Salfists, or necessarily that pious,. You should know being Baháʾís.


His overall message is submission to immorality and barbarity.



You said "The life of the Prophet has been distorted by His detractors." There are literally hundreds of conspiracies like this. Paranoia is rife in the Muslim world. The real problem is within.

This is precisely what I was talking about how 13 centuries of infighting is now being blamed on a "Zionist" conspiracy a concept that only took hold in the early 20th century.

If an individual has neurosis, they can believe that most of their problems are the result of some outside conspiracy against them. Also they will also extend this to blame unrelated event (e.g. Princess Diana death) on conspiracies too. It is an illness, that you have to break out of. it takes willpower and self-realization.

Isn't "Zionism" just a newfangled name for a conflict that's several millennia old?

Not really. It is a specific concept that wasn't even mainstream till the late 30s. It is totally separate from the various run ins that have been going on between Abrahmic faiths.

I recommended looking it up.

It is being used as a catch all conspiracy like Illuminati, etc. But most of this has little to do with the movement.

Jewism is a religion of faith not based on land. Now they want to own some land and call it Zion. Whatever you call it, this idea has always existed for the losers of Jewism. Now many agree that Zion should exist and other jews do not agree.