To religious people. Will atheists go to hell or heaven?

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greenblue
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05 Jun 2008, 3:45 pm

Nambo wrote:

greenblue wrote:

The Bible mentions the Lake of fire refering it to Hell, which I can say they would have being inspired by vulcanic eruptions of lava to come up with the idea of Hell.

No it doesnt.

Please read the Bible before you quote from it else all you do is perpetuate the God dishonouring lies of the Catholic Church and its daughter Islam that God would torture people horribly just because they didnt belive in him.

This is what the Bible says about Hell and the lake of fire

REV 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Did you read that, Hell was cast into the lake of fire.

So how can Hell BE the lake of fire?, how can it be cast into itself?

Hell is sheol or Hades, its just the grave, Jesus went to hell for 3 days before he was resurrected . There is no fire or pains or pitchforks there, its just a lie to make you become a Catholic or a muslim.

The lake of fire though, is an illustration to the Jews to help them understand permanant destruction, (not permanant torture), outside Jerusalem was a permantantly burning rubbish tip kept burning with sulpher into which even dead (not live) dead criminals would be hurled, it was called the Valley of Gehenna.

Did you also read death will be hurled into the lake of fire?, that means death itself will also be permantly destroyed.

And yes, we are dust, we are what we eat, which ultimately comes from the soil.

Well, as I stated in the above quote, it is a matter of interpretation, I was christian before (Adventist), so I learned that the lake of fire was very similar to a vulcanic eruption why I think it would have been an inspiration, in which God will destroy earth (purifiying it with fire) with the sinners and unbelievers in it, burning to death, that after the 1,000 years of "peace" after the Armaggedon. That would likely differ from your own beliefs.

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burnse22
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05 Jun 2008, 3:54 pm

Ragtime wrote:

burnse22 wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

burnse22 wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
(Mark 16:16)

So what happens if you believeth but are not baptized?

Nothing in the eternal realm. It is an outward showing of faith.

Eh? So it doesn't matter if you're baptized or not? What's so important about it then?

Can you read?

I thought about this until I realised that you're statements were actually very vague. If nothing happens in the eternal realm (and you didn't define this so I have to assume you mean the afterlife) then what does this actually mean? Is it that baptism is just a way to show your faith without being necessary to gain access to heaven. Or does it mean that it is somehow important in the non-eternal realm, and if so, in what way? And if baptism is not important then why does Jesus say that it is a necessary condition to gain access to heaven? Is he wrong? Are you? And if it is important then why is it important? Does it mean that if someone believed all their life in God but could not, for any reason, be baptized that they would be denied access to heaven?

How about actually answering questions instead of making vague mystical comments and then insulting people who can't follow your ill-defined train of thought. You aren't going to get a lot of converts with that attitude.

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05 Jun 2008, 4:19 pm

burnse22 wrote:

How about actually answering questions instead of making vague mystical comments and then insulting people who can't follow your ill-defined train of thought. You aren't going to get a lot of converts with that attitude.

But that doesn't mean he'll change his attitude. Ragtime is very self-assured and arrogant, and claims not to be trying to gain converts whenever he's called out on failing to witness effectively.

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Ragtime
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05 Jun 2008, 4:47 pm

Phagocyte wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Can you read?

I think that's rather unnecessary.

Well, I get tired of all the impish tweaking of everything I say, day after day, week after week, month after month, and indeed year after year. I get very little respect on this forum, and I may well show my reaction to that from time to time.

Phagocyte wrote:

But I understand what you're saying, it's more of a symbolic thing to do to demonstrate one's faith, right?

Right. Like Jesus saying "This do in remembrance of me" when he took Communion with His disciples. It wasn't a you'll-go-to-Hell-if-you-don't command, it was a strong request.

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Ragtime
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05 Jun 2008, 4:53 pm

burnse22 wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

burnse22 wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

burnse22 wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
(Mark 16:16)

So what happens if you believeth but are not baptized?

Nothing in the eternal realm. It is an outward showing of faith.

Eh? So it doesn't matter if you're baptized or not? What's so important about it then?

Can you read?

Many other places in the New Testament -- chiefly Jesus' own statements -- exclude baptism from the list of things needed to be Saved. That list, in most cases, has one item: faith.

burnse22 wrote:

I didn't consider it vague in the slightest degree, but it seems we had a miscommunication.

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The_Chosen_One
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05 Jun 2008, 8:21 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Phagocyte wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Can you read?

I think that's rather unnecessary.

Phagocyte wrote:

But I understand what you're saying, it's more of a symbolic thing to do to demonstrate one's faith, right?

Right. Like Jesus saying "This do in remembrance of me" when he took Communion with His disciples. It wasn't a you'll-go-to-Hell-if-you-don't command, it was a strong request.

The thing is, you don't seem to say anything original, or anything other than what is in scripture; that is why we are taking the piss out of you. Maybe if you could give us a logical opinion as to why you believe what you do, then we may give it some credence and think 'hey, he's got something there', but until you do, you may as well be blowin' in the wind.

Anyway, I believe I may have been Christened when I was a baby, and I went to Sunday School (Methodist, Church of Christ, Assemblies of God) and my family are members of the latter church. Later on I was told that unless I was actually BORN AGAIN and saved, I was not going to heaven. So I thought 'what the f**k? what's the point of Christening?' and said 'right, obvious this doesn't make any sense, I'll look for my own path. Then I realised paganism was my true path, and have since embraced it fully. Wise choice.

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Speckles
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05 Jun 2008, 9:14 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Well, to be fair, you keep telling everyone that they are going to hell if they don't agree with you. You also keep bad-mouthing atheists, evolutionists, non-Christians, non-fundamentalist Christians, moderate conservatives, and liberals when you should know by now that a fair portion of the forum are at least one of the above. "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you"; or, in other words, payback's a b***h.

Fnord
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05 Jun 2008, 9:28 pm

makuranososhi wrote:

And what about Valhalla? I mean, the travel brochures do look rather swell...

Ah, but there's no there there, if you know what I mean. :wink:

makuranososhi
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05 Jun 2008, 10:05 pm

Fnord wrote:

makuranososhi wrote:

And what about Valhalla? I mean, the travel brochures do look rather swell...

Ah, but there's no there there, if you know what I mean. :wink:

Ahahahahahahaha... No matter where you go, there you are, no?

M.

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Fnord
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05 Jun 2008, 10:08 pm

makuranososhi wrote:

Fnord wrote:

makuranososhi wrote:

And what about Valhalla? I mean, the travel brochures do look rather swell...

Ah, but there's no there there, if you know what I mean. :wink:

Ahahahahahahaha... No matter where you go, there you are, no?

M.

No. More like "Valhalla - What a concept!"

The_Chosen_One
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05 Jun 2008, 10:15 pm

Boom Boom!

A question to all the Christians who say that hell DEFINITELY exists; have you actually BEEN there? If so, how did you get back? Tell me of ONE PERSON (real account please) of a person who has visited either place and can tell us what it is like, and I might consider it with more than a dose of skepticism.

To me, Raggy's beliefs in his 'god' are more like a spiritual dose of LSD. Only thing is, that i) when you come down off LSD you realise that what you saw was in fact an illusion or halucination; and ii) death is a fairly drastic way to come out of a halucination only to realise that reality could be nothing at all. Still, they are only BELIEFS......

Oh, and BTW, when I go to court to swear as a witness, I may be f****d 2 ways from Sunday if Raggy's theory is correct, because to swear by almighty God on the bible is something a pagan would never do.

I suppose I could swear on Homer's Illiad.....

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Fnord
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05 Jun 2008, 10:22 pm

Ask not for whom the bell trolls; it trolls for you, "The Chosen One". It trolls for you...

The_Chosen_One
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05 Jun 2008, 10:42 pm

For every troll, there must be a Billy Goat Gruff. This little billy Goat hopes to make sure that said troll would need good dose of Alka Seltzer. Indigestion is the word, sayeth me.

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Pagans are people too, not just victims of a religious cleansing program. Universal harmony for all!!

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Pixel8
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05 Jun 2008, 11:27 pm

I believe we make heaven and hell right here on Earth.

If you believe in reincarnation (and the early christians did believe) then you could be judged on your actions and have either a crumby rebirth in the hell realms or just here on Earth, or you could reach enlightenment and live outside of time eternally in Nirvana or heaven or whatever.

Rastafarians believe every day is judgement day, I go along with that.
Karma is constantly adjusting your situation based on your actions.

Question is are you prepared to risk hell for your beliefs?
I chose to disobey the God of the Bible so if it's all true then I guess I'll be punished.
Better than toadying up to a psychopathic tyrant anyway.

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Ragtime
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06 Jun 2008, 11:32 am

I also forgot to mention that, if I seem extra certain about my Salvation, it's because I listened to all four Gospels on my iPod within the past two weeks, and they make it very, very clear that Salvation is something one can be sure of. Accept Christ, and it's accomplished. No exceptions were given.

skafather84
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06 Jun 2008, 11:40 am

Ragtime wrote:

you know, i tried a few books on tape before and they never worked out. for me, i find books to be a little too slow-paced to be consumed aurally and really get a good continuity.

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