Are you overly-sensitive to images of cruelty?

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Michjo
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01 Aug 2009, 4:58 pm

Janissy wrote:

How exactly does one prevent human evil?

Evil is subjective and doesn't exist as a concrete idea. Let's try and stay away from a philosophical debate eh?

Janissy
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01 Aug 2009, 5:00 pm

Michjo wrote:

marshall wrote:

You say that you don't care. I don't have a problem with that. Whether you care or not isn't my business. By the same token I don't think it's your business whether someone else cares or not. Saying someone shouldn't care if they can't do anything about it is insulting. It's like you're invalidating their feelings. Different people are affected differently by things.

It's "like" invalidating someones feelings because that's exactly what i'm doing. Emotion is a useful tool, but you shouldn't let it control you and emotional responses to things you are unwilling to change are un-needed. Of course, it's a personal choice, but i think people should attempt to suppress such feelings as they have no functional purpose.

marshall wrote:

However if someone was sadistically torturing someone else right next to me I'd be strongly affected. I'd probably attempt to do something to stop it even if it would put my own life in danger. That's just the way I am.

I'd still say that an individual who was watching this, in a position to do something (who chooses not to) has no right to feel sorry for the person being tortured. Not only is it illogical, but it's insulting to the person being tortured. On the other-hand, fear would be a perfectly acceptable emotional response.

chronozon wrote:

That is....I think it's imperative to understand why so many are so cruel in the first place.

Placing yourself into other people's shoes, is it like a recreational activity? Are you trying to live out what you are seeing like a drama?

Unwilling to change? How about unable. You make it sound like human evil is something that people can actually change in anyone other than themselves. The only person that can be prevented from committing evil is oneself. It is impossible to prevent other people from committing evil although law enforcement and religion have historically tried. And law enforcement and religion have also CAUSED a fair bit of evil which balances out their attempts to stop it with such things as laws against murder and religious commandments against murder. There is no institution that has ever been able to devote itself one-sidedly to stopping people from doing evil things and individuals have been famously unable even to prevent their own neighbors or even children from committing atrocities.

Michjo
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01 Aug 2009, 5:05 pm

Janissy wrote:

Unwilling to change? How about unable.

Unwilling and unable. I think what i've said applies to both words. There's no point feeling sorry for anne frank, there is nothing we can do for her. You shouldn't feel sorry for starving children in africa if you are unwilling to spare a portion of your wage into feeding them.

Chronozon
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01 Aug 2009, 5:09 pm

Michjo wrote:

marshall wrote:

chronozon wrote:

That is....I think it's imperative to understand why so many are so cruel in the first place.

Placing yourself into other people's shoes, is it like a recreational activity? Are you trying to live out what you are seeing like a drama?

What exactly gave you the idea this is some sort of recreational activity for me? Seems like you're setting up a strawman here. I guess we should just give up trying to understand anti-social behavior eh? After all, anyone who does is just trying to live vicariously through the monstrous acts of others eh?

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01 Aug 2009, 5:12 pm

Michjo wrote:

Janissy wrote:

Unwilling to change? How about unable.

Nobody said there's a necessarily a point to it. But I guess everything YOU do and feel has a point right?

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01 Aug 2009, 5:18 pm

Dilbert wrote:

^^ What????

You are not old enough to have been in Korea, and too old to have been in Vietnam. What's with the anger?

Propaganda never dies, but fortunately the people who believe it eventually do.

Michjo
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01 Aug 2009, 5:20 pm

chronozon wrote:

You're coming across as a little paranoid and for your information i would never intentionally set-up a straw-man and use it in an arguement. I'm here for discussion and to learn. When you watch a sitcom and something sad happens, do you empathsise with said person? Do you attempt to suppress said emotions?

chronozon wrote:

Nobody said there's a necessarily a point to it. But I guess everything YOU do and feel has a point right?

I don't have any feelings and i constantly engage in meaningless actions. Life is journey and i'm constantly trying to cut-back on pointless actions, but i am only human after all.

Chronozon
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01 Aug 2009, 5:22 pm

Michjo wrote:

Janissy wrote:

How exactly does one prevent human evil?

Evil is subjective and doesn't exist as a concrete idea. Let's try and stay away from a philosophical debate eh?

I think this is evident to most intelligent people by now. Nonetheless...I think we can agree that most people would not want to live in a world where every man is a wolf to their neighbor. So what's wrong with analyzing the wolves and finding out how we can stop them in their tracks?

marshall
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01 Aug 2009, 5:24 pm

Michjo wrote:

Your idea that emotion is a personal choice is bogus. It's pure fantasy on your part. It's almost as bad as the homophobes who say being gay is a personal choice. Emotion isn't a tool either. It's a chemical/biological response.

Quote:

marshall wrote:

What if the person is not in a position to do anything to stop the torture yet can't help but feel revulsion after witnessing such an act. Is the feeling still wrong according to you?

Last edited by marshall on 01 Aug 2009, 5:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Michjo
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01 Aug 2009, 5:24 pm

chronozon wrote:

Being sad for people in pain, that you cannot do anything about isn't analysing evil however and is pointless.

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01 Aug 2009, 5:36 pm

Not at all concerning humans. I can watch cruel films and dont mind seeing authentic cruelty like the holocaust and similuar in detail in film. I can also see photos of dead bodies and think it can be interesting to see and it doesnt scare me

But I can be very sensitive towards cruelty towards animals, especially cats as I love them very much...

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Janissy
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01 Aug 2009, 6:02 pm

Michjo wrote:

Janissy wrote:

Unwilling to change? How about unable.

I can't do anything for Anne Frank because she's already dead.

That starving child in Africa? I have sent a portion of my wage to help feed him and you know what. IT DIDN'T HELP. Because the reason he is hungry is not because food doesn't grow in Africa. He's hungry because he lives in a part of the world dominated by gangs of very evil men who steal the food my money paid for and sell it and pocket the money. THAT'S the problem that Chronozon is talking about. Why, to use your example, would people steal food meant for starving children? But they do. And there's nothing I can do about it. Of course I've simplified it radically, but my maion point is your "just send money" help only helps when good people run the show. And the aid organizations are good, I assume. But they don't run the show. That child is starving because evil people have done horrible things in his country, they burn the village where he lives and drive him into a refugee camp. They kill his parents and many of his relatives who would support him. They destroy the crops that would feed him.They steal the food that my contribution money buys. And I can't do anything about that.

Janissy
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01 Aug 2009, 6:11 pm

Michjo wrote:

Janissy wrote:

How exactly does one prevent human evil?

Evil is subjective and doesn't exist as a concrete idea. Let's try and stay away from a philosophical debate eh?

I'll re-word: How exactly does one prevent humans from causing suffering to each other?

Janissy
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01 Aug 2009, 6:16 pm

Michjo wrote:

chronozon wrote:

Being sad for people in pain, that you cannot do anything about isn't analysing evil however and is pointless.

What I was getting from Chronozn's posts wasn't sadness but rather a visceral revulsion. That visceral reaction isn't pointless. I personally see it as one of the saving graces of the human species. The fact that people are often literally nauseated by witnessing this suffering is something that keeps pulling our species back from the abyss. If nobody felt that revulsion, life would quite literally be Hell.

Chronozon
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01 Aug 2009, 6:43 pm

Michjo wrote:

chronozon wrote:

Being sad for people in pain, that you cannot do anything about isn't analysing evil however and is pointless.

I understand what you're saying here. It's against one's own self-interest to have negative emotions for people you can't do anything to help. In fact, I would imagine alot of medical professionals can easily detach themselves emotionally from the pain of those they can help. I'm sure you've heard some people say they could not work in the medical field simply due to the fact that they wouldn't be able to detach themselves emotionally from the pain of others. So I agree...anyway you slice it, it is pointless. The problem i'm having though is the same one another poster just mentioned. You seem to believe emotions are a voluntary mechanism we can just switch on/off at will. If so, I don't see how you came to that conclusion. I think emotions just manifest themselves differently (or in some cases....not at all) in different people. We don't seem to able to readily pick and choose how we respond emotionally to any given situation.

marshall
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01 Aug 2009, 6:51 pm

Janissy wrote:

Michjo wrote:

chronozon wrote:

Being sad for people in pain, that you cannot do anything about isn't analysing evil however and is pointless.

That's exactly what it is. I don't feel sad. I feel revulsion.

Michjo...

Maybe emotions that don't serve an immediate purpose are pointless to you, but they aren't pointless to the person experiencing them. They're a biologically driven part of life that can't be helped. It's not as simple as thinking "this emotion is silly therefore I choose not to feel it". I have a very high intelligence and I just know that that's not how my brain works. Maybe your brain works that way but mine does not. I can apply logic to solve a scientific or mathematical problem very easily yet applying logic to my emotions isn't that simple. You have a different perception of the world than I do.

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