'Theres no scientific consensus that life is important!'

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No reason to lash out at me because you're illiterate dear.

Last edited by Bethie on 21 Aug 2010, 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You confuse "created without conscious intent" with "accidental".

In any case, chemicals do not supply us with knowledge.

Last edited by Bethie on 21 Aug 2010, 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Is "unique" the same as "important" ie, impactual?

I did not say unique in my post. I would say life is important because it is having an impact on the universe.

You have this in reverse, sorry to say.

What impact is life on Earth having on the universe?

Remember when replying that the universe is approximately 28 billion light-years across, not confined to this one planet, or even this one solar system...

I've read that impulses from the brain are made by electrons going in a definite direction and that every material thing in the universe has these electrons. I believe that the laws of physics state that electrons are not only equal but also indistinguishable. So, if the worldview of atheistic materialism were true, then humans as well as material things such as computers, vacuum cleaners, lamps, etc., should all have the same distrusting inabilities equally.

In reality, though, it's just the opposite. The brain is a physical entity but the "self," which houses the reasoning ability, imagination, etc., is not; and therefore it remains outside the laws of physics; which is to say that our thoughts and our decisions are more than tiny carbon firings inside the brain.

Our brain is part of us, but it isn't absolutely who we are. We need lungs, but our lungs don't make us the individual that we are; likewise our brain doesn't make us the person that we are. We are individuals because it is the "self" (or mind or soul or whatever one wishes to call it) that affords us the ability to evaluate options and make decisions, not the brain.

And since electrical impulses from the brain cannot originate our individuality, it means that the "self" and the brain are different entities and have different properties; although they do influence each other greatly because they closely interact.

Some odd thoughts are so amusingly out of touch with reality that they are hilarious.

Last edited by Sand on 22 Aug 2010, 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ok, here i go again. been dead four times. very bizarre things happen when this occurs. i can only conclude it is a similar experience with that of taking lsd.
sand is certainly correct that his life is important to him. also, it is correct what dr. manhatton said in 'watchmen'. all life on earth could disappear and the universe would not even notice. carl sagan alluded to same when he said all life on earth will vanish when the sun goes nova in a few billion (his favorite word) years. our alligator brain tells us life is important, higher brain functions only cause to confuse us.
what i learned in those few moments of non-existence: life is important only in that i can help other lives. in my case that means non-human animals. unlike sand, my personal life is not important. my life has been a tragedy from the exact moment of birth. waste of space to quote sagan. i envy sand to feel that important. i do not.
is your life important or a waste of space? that is for you and your conscience (why did i use that word?) to determine.

As a matter of fact my contacts with humans is also rather sparse and the bulk of my life is involved with wild ducks and other local animals. I also paint and sculpt and write poetry and other stuff and that is my life. I find that important and rewarding.

Your source was inaccurate.

First, neural signals are electrochemical in nature; that is, chemical compounds are involved, as well as electrical impulses. (This is why, for instance, severe depression can be treated with pills - the neurochemistry needs to be rebalanced. Talk therapy is also helpful, to deal with the thought habits arising from the neurochemical problems.)

Second, electrons are not identical - some are higher-energy than others, for instance. Further, once the electrons have combined with neutrons and protons to form atoms, they are even more easily distinguished - a vacuum cleaner is not a television is not a book is not a brain.

The question remains: Is "mind" an illusion caused by neural firing, something created by a Supreme Being, or an emergent property of sufficiently-complex neural systems? Or something else altogether?

The main flaw in the question is the word important. Important is an individual sense of saliency, partly based on knowledge but also based on impulse. Most of everything we value comes from our motivational/lymbic complexes and works its way outward.

Regarding whether we have to worry about cataclysm - ever since the big bang things have been on a 1:1 trajectory. Everything that has or ever will happen in this universe comes from that initial motion and thus is completely and utterly pre-determined as even an extremely intricate layout of falling dominoes would be. The difference from the atheistic and theistic perspective is that the theistic would argue that, if the big bang was created and if the human species or any species in this universe had some degree of unique importance - our reality is an apparatus and thus if such a designer desired for us not to be abruptly clipped by a supernova or some other form of cosmic radiation, collision, etc., things would go exactly as planned because past and future are just as fixed. I think what can be agreed on from both the atheistic and theistic sides is that what's going to happen is exactly what's going to happen. We can both agree that all we really can do is enjoy life in the moment to the best of our ability and manage the pressures and stresses that our hypothalami place on us wisely.

If there's eternity of oblivion on both sides - there's nothing to worry about. If there is a human soul and a life before and after, it would be incomprehensible that such a God would hold us accountable for having all the free will of a stapler or bottle opener and things just turning out sideways for being born at the wrong place at the wrong time. So regardless of the theistic question we're left with a reality that works the same way.

All that said I would completely agree with the poster who said that our lives are worth something as they can reflect off of one another. A sky full of stars, sunsets over the mountains, warm breeze on your back, watching a butterfly land on a leaf - these beauties are great for the comfortable but generally speaking they have a diminishing rate of return for those who are in some form of exquisite agony. They might be good for individual purpose to some but its not a mindset that can be broadly extrapolated. Generally speaking though human life, human suffering, comes with a pain to reward ratio that would generally indicate that its in the red - even oblivion has a better rate of return. What we have while alive is a sort of genetic wiring that says stay alive at all costs, we don't question it too much but its also interesting to note that there are some people who, by certain misfortunes, could say the same thing about crack or heroin. In one sense, if this were all there is, we and all life would be far better off if it all dissapeared. On the other hand, in the case of a world and universe owned, run, and built by deity, its really not our place to make such a decision. Hope all of that didn't sound like a bunch of aimless wandering but there's no clear answer on this one, the best we can really do is just highlight the details and what's out there to be weighed.

By adhering to some philosophies by necessity given that humans have the brain capacity of it? I mean, theists do that as well, but differently, and religion itself seems an evolutionary aspect of the human brain. Really, your point doesn't seem to support theism that much, as it looks like a subjective notion (much like appeal to emotion or the like) and it seems to appeal to the God of the gaps.

Important to whom or what?

ruveyn

Silicon dioxide?

Life on Earth has evolved to a state where it can send out radio waves into space. These radio waves may have an impact. But yes as far as the universe goes it may be the smallest drop in the ocean.