An economy for aspies? The Venus Project ...

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I'll try to keep this brief - a system that doesn't manipulate raw human nature for the good of correcting the problems of raw human nature - is really a system that will last long enough to destroy the checks of society, fall apart of its own weight based on what of human nature is ignored, and leave us in a far worse state when the idea unravels in mid air.

Look dude, all deliberation aside, I'm gonna be straight with you.

Like I said before, I can explain to you till I'm blue in the face that the venus project is not what you assume it is, and since you cannot even be bothered to check it out for yourself forces you to judge what it is from what I am telling you. That is not an accurate depiction of what the venus project is about since as an aspie, I have only a limited capacity to articulate what the venus project is about, and if you wish to criticise the venus project, the only logical way you can do that is to criticise the source.

Now I can understand if you are criticising me personally, that definately makes sence since I am here, communicating with you, however all I am giving you is details of what I understand the venus project to be about, so the only thing you can criticise is the venus project, and since it is coming through me, you really are procuring an excersise in futility. And it is absurd to make your judgements solely on what I say without referring to the source material and the principle people behind the venus project.

What I find hypocritical about you is that you demand for me to know my facts about economics so you can take me seriously, while at the same time you're not doing me the same gesture of research, in addition you openly admit your belligerence to NOT KNOW the facts since you seemingly feel safer attacking me than what I am standing for in this instance. That is the main flaw in your argument. You need to at least understand where I am coming from with the venus project and since I am not a representative of the project myself, I am merely a man who is in alignment with their ideas, my words are not an accurate barometer for the ideoligies of the venus project itself.

And for that reason, the only thing you are criticising, the only thing you CAN criticise is my understanding of the venus project, which I can admit, I don't know all the answers, no-one does. One of the things I am doing is hightening my understanding of what the venus project is, thus being more able to accurately explain it to people, and even people like yourself who are aggressively resistant to it. One of the principle aims of the venus project is to show you that there is a different way. And an optimal direction we can take as a species, and it lays down a set of ideals and philosophies that when taken on board will help us be a better society.

Now I am aware that everything that I have said to you, you have countered with bleak obstructiveness and ignorant stonewalling. This is not what I am trying to get from you, I can only introduce you to these ideas. It is not my job to convert you, or change your belief system, that is yours and yours alone. My only intention has been to introduce you to ideas that while they are extremely foreign to you, and utterly incomprehensible, if you have the ability to do your own research and follow through your conviction of making your point, you would be wiser to aim that critique towards someone who has more answers than I do.

It is absurd and foolish of you to assume that I am of the impression that I have all the answers coz I am a member of the venus project, and since you are more able to construct more eloquent criticisms, then you should be empowered to belittle me. Thjat is ethically wrong, hostile, uncharitable and is purely a fruitless excersise, and you will realise that if you have the guts to point that analytical criticism at someone who can give you more direct and informed answers concerning the venus project.

Now I will leave it there, I will not discuss this with you further UNLESS you show that you are willing to do your own research and find out for yourself what the venus project is and stand on a more mature, constructive ground with me. Coz I dare say once you see for yourself, you will have questions, and while I can't guarantee that I can answer them for you, I'm sure you can ask Jaque Fresco, Roxanne Meadows, or even Peter Joseph.

If you have such faith in your ways to disprove this, why not have the courage of your convictions and take your battle to them. You may have questions that no-one has asked them before.

And besides, wo are you to dictate to other people? Why don't you let other peiople review the evidence for themselves concerning the zeitgeist movies and let them make up theirown minds?

I already said that I will not discuss this with you until you know what you are talking about in respect of the venus project. And don't presume the nature of my dysfuction as an aspie, we are all different.

Pardon my french, but why do you have o be such a prick about this? I said I didn't wish t discuss it and here you are picking apart my sentences and applying your own interpretations and theories upon them.

Here is the facts, you can't be bothered to familiarise yourself with the venus project, and you won't discuss it with them directly because you will go off track. That is not my problem. And just because you feel safe criticising me because you are too scared to take the fight to them doesn't mean you are entitled to keep on at me for everything I say.

I have drawn the line. If you quote me again, picking my words apart again, I will report you.

You're missing the point. I have told you that I will not discuss it further and I have asked you to stop quoting me and picking my words apart and you still persist to do it. why???? why the f**k do you still do something when I HAVE ASKED YOU TO STOP???? IS THERE NO SHREAD OF DECENCY AND RESPECT IN YOU????

That to me is you overstepping the line, and I don't give a s**t, that you don't think you have because you have. I have told you this and asked you to stop, and your refusal has forced me to take action.

I'm not saying that, by all mean do, but if ask you to stop, would you feel it is you right to persist and defy he request? That is called bullying.

And especially if it is coming from a person who can't even be bothered to know the facts of what they are critcising. while at te same time demanding that I KNOW what I am talking about.

If he had been in a position of full understanding of what the venus prject is, then yes, I would have discussed this with him for as long as he wants, and wouldn't mindbeing quoted, as long as it didn't cross the line, but i don't take kindly to ignorance.

No doubt that this post itself would be quoted, discected and interpreted in his own language as though he feels it is his rigt to reiterate my words and augment them with his own once he has dismembered them.

noodle with things? what is that supposed to mean? forgive me for my lack of savvy.

Besides that gives him no excuse to cmmunicate with me in the manner that he has. Even I can follow a request like I made to stop deconstructing and disemboweling words. If he isn't stupid, then it must be bare-faced defiance and arrogance that motivated him to disrespect my request for him to stop quoting me and augmenting my wrds with his own.

That aside, its good to talk to someone who has a good deal of expertise in this field. I appreciate it.

Yes the graphics are slick, and I'm sure Jacque Fresco isn't intending on winning everyone over with the designs, because from the outset, they DO look too sci-fi to be possible. This is why so many accusations of "pie in the sky" and "pipe dreams" get thrown at the venus project.

Jacque Fresco isn't proposing these sort of tecnological leaps immediately, it is merely a depiction of what CAN BE. This whole reflexive abhoration and dismissal of progressive thinking and forward thought is one of the main psychological barriers that te venus project stands up against.

I've been to one of Jaque Fresco's lectures in London and I have seen for myself that the venus project is possible. People have bee conditioned in our society to fear what is new, and not only that, but to immediately perceive any new idea with contempt and dismissal.

That is why I call for people to get familiar with the venus project, and see for themselves whether it is something they can be interested in. nd who knows, the more people look at the proposals, the more feedback that can be given, and the further imprvements that can be made.

Jacque resco said himself that the venus project isn't perfect, it's just a lot better. It doesn't claim to be able to wave a magic wand andsolve all our global problems. One of the tenets of the Zeitgeist Movement (the communication and actrivist arm iof the venus project) is that thwereisno leader of the movement, each person in the movement is their own leader. There is no leader, there is no guru, you yourself are the master and the pupil.

These ideas go against what we have been taught for hundreds of years. We have always lived in scarcity, and that has been one of he founding pillars of the monetary system.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be skeptical. By all means be as skeptical as you want. But it is unwise to allow skepticism to taint the possibility of psycholgiucal understanding. And as Jiddu Krishnamurti says, as quoted in Zeitgeist Addendum:

"What we are trying in all these discussions and talks here, is to see if we cannot radically bring about a transformation of the mind. *Not accept things as they are* - but to understand it, to go into it, examine it, give your heart and your mind with every thing that you have to find out. A way of living differently. But that depends on you and not somebody else. Because in this there is no teacher, no pupil. There's no leader, there is no guru, there's no master, no savior. You yourself are the teacher, and the pupil, you're the master, you're the guru, you are the leader, you are everything! And, to understand is to transform what is."

By all means be skeptical. But give the venus project a chance because it's aim is to improve life on this planet. The answer lies in you. In the minds of everyone on whether they will address the root causes of our problems and seek a better way of living.

Then by all means, don't you think if I refer a person to the source material they can do all the noodling they wish. However they feel since I am here to present the idea I seem to have elected myself as the noodle target. Very charitable guys. That is just diferential advantage because I am not an official spokesperson of the venus project.

The free enterprise system I admit was good in it's inception, but that was the last of it's usefullness. Money creates more damage than it mends society. As Jacque Fresco himself says:

"If all the money in the world were destroyed, as long as we have sufficient arable land, the factories, the necessary resources, and technical personnel, we could build anything and even supply an abundance. During the Depression, there were vacuum cleaners in store windows and automobiles in car lots. The Earth was still the same place. There was just no money in people's wallets and very little purchasing power. At the beginning of World War II, the U.S. had about 600 first-class fighting aircraft. We rapidly overcame this short-supply by turning out over 90,000 planes per year. The question at the start of World War II was: Do we have enough funds to produce the required implements of war? The answer was No, we did not have enough money or gold, but we did have more than enough resources. It was the available resources and technical personnel that enabled the U.S. to achieve the production and efficiency required to win the war.

It appears that the real wealth of any nation is in its natural resources and its people who are working toward a more humane life-style through the elimination of scarcity. All social systems, regardless of the political philosophy, religious beliefs, or social mores, ultimately depend upon natural resources -- i.e. clean air and water and arable land area -- and the industrial equipment and technical personnel for a high standard of living. The money- based system was designed hundreds of years ago and was hardly appropriate for that time. We still utilize this same outmoded system, which is probably responsible for most of today's problems. I have no doubt that even the wealthiest person today would be far better off in the high-energy society that The Venus Project proposes.

There are many disadvantages to using this old method of exchange for goods and services. We will consider just a few here and let you add to this list on your own.

1. Money is just an interference between what one needs and what one is able to get. It is not money that people need, it is access to resources.

2. The use of money results in social stratification and elitism based primarily on economic disparity.

3. People are not equal without equal purchasing power.

4. Most people are slaves to jobs they do not like because they need the money.

5. There is tremendous corruption, greed, crime, embezzlement, and more caused by the need for money.

6. Most laws are enacted for the benefit of corporations, which have enough money to lobby, bribe, or persuade government officials to make laws that serve their interests.

7. Those who control purchasing power have greater influence.

8. Money is used to control the behavior of those with limited purchasing power.

9. Goods such as foods are sometimes destroyed to keep prices up; when things are scarce prices increase.

10. There is tremendous waste of material and strain on available resources from superficial design changes for newer later fads each year in order to create continuous markets for manufacturers.

11. There is tremendous environmental degradation due to the high cost of better methods of waste disposal.

12. The Earth is being plundered for profit.

13. The benefits of technology are only distributed to those with sufficient purchasing power.

14. Most important, when the corporation’s bottom line is profit, decisions in all areas are made not for the benefit of people and the environment, but primarily for the acquisition of wealth, property, and power."

Jacque Fresco is 93 years old. He has far more years of experience in these matters than any of us.

That is why I ask peple to check out the Zeitgeist Movement andthe Venus Project. Because you must in matters such as this look past face value and actually be bothered to research and make your own deliberations in order to understand anything.