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Alfonso12345
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07 Oct 2012, 2:59 pm

I'm not sure abandoning the Christian faith because an overly-superstitious pastor thought you were demon-possessed is a good reason, thought it might be a very good reason for abandoning that specific church. Often when people leave a religion or refuse to join it for bad reasons, they might one day go back to it or join it, but might there be another reason why you left Christianity? Are the flaws in the religion itself another reason?

I know that my reason to begin to doubt Christianity was when I was beginning to have psychological issues, probably caused by long periods of experiencing very negative stress and being on the verge of a meltdown for days at a time, and I was having extremely cruel and sadistic desires. But when I had this experience, I discovered that the Christian god had all of the issues I had and seemed to enjoy them. The Christian god seemed to enjoy the suffering it brought upon humans in the Bible and began to realize that the Christian god was a monster and then began to doubt if it was real. I researched the subject until I came to the conclusion that the Christian god was a false god.



Hopetobe
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07 Oct 2012, 5:58 pm

Alfonso12345 wrote:
I'm not sure abandoning the Christian faith because an overly-superstitious pastor thought you were demon-possessed is a good reason, thought it might be a very good reason for abandoning that specific church. Often when people leave a religion or refuse to join it for bad reasons, they might one day go back to it or join it, but might there be another reason why you left Christianity? Are the flaws in the religion itself another reason?


Yes, I started to doubt christianity for more reasons. If God is perfect and flawless, why we all were born sinners? Why did God create Satan? He must have known what would happen. Etc.



Tequila
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07 Oct 2012, 6:51 pm

Hopetobe wrote:
If God is perfect and flawless, why we all were born sinners?


It's a pretty misanthropic and hateful view of humanity to start with.



TM
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07 Oct 2012, 7:03 pm

Tequila wrote:
Hopetobe wrote:
If God is perfect and flawless, why we all were born sinners?


It's a pretty misanthropic and hateful view of humanity to start with.


Well, if you buy the premise that god created all of us, then made us able to decide to believe in him or not, with the clause that if we don't we get tortured for all eternity, I'd say his post was cheery in comparison. Especially since some scientists are starting to wonder if we actually have free will, or to what extent we have free will.

You could also consider the fact that things like homosexuality is largely viewed as being genetic these days, which would mean that god made homosexuals, yet ordered them killed in his literal word (The Bible).

If you buy the premise that god exists and is omniscient I.E. knows everything and is omnipotent (all powerful), then he could have changed every bad thing that ever happened to you or anyone else through the history of the world, yet didn't. If you then consider that scientists estimate that 99.9% of all life that has ever lived on this earth have died, then it starts to show a somewhat sinister and sadistic streak.



Hopetobe
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07 Oct 2012, 7:10 pm

Tequila wrote:
Hopetobe wrote:
If God is perfect and flawless, why we all were born sinners?


It's a pretty misanthropic and hateful view of humanity to start with.

That´s what the christian faith and bible says. That we are born evil, corrupted, that our nature is corrupted.



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07 Oct 2012, 11:19 pm

Hopetobe wrote:
Tequila wrote:
Hopetobe wrote:
If God is perfect and flawless, why we all were born sinners?


It's a pretty misanthropic and hateful view of humanity to start with.

That´s what the christian faith and bible says. That we are born evil, corrupted, that our nature is corrupted.


I don't recall it ever specifically saying humans are born evil, though some people get that from original sin, a concept which is itself never once mentioned in the bible, but seems to be based on a few passages in which Paul compares and contrasts Jesus and Adam.

But rather we all sin, or more accurately, "het".

"Het" is the word originally used in the bible. "sin" is a poor translation. "Het", in it's most literal sense, means "when an archer misses their target." Thus when it says that everyone is a sinner, all it means is nobody's perfect.

I would rather have mistakes that I need to be forgiven for than not have free will.

Thom_Fuleri wrote:
Technically Pan and Satan are the same thing. Poor Pan was the victim of a Christian smear campaign way way back; all these pagans needed converting to the new faith, so it was "oh, the goat legged guy with the horns? Yeah, he's real... and he's evil, too. Here's the scoop..."

Curious to note that there's no Devil in the OT. He appears all over the place in the NT. The OT mentions devils, but not theDevil. You have Lucifer, of course, but he's been retconned into the role - according to the OT, Lucifer was imprisoned in Hell for eternity. Not in charge, but imprisoned. Hell is eternal suffering for him, not us. He certainly shouldn't be up and about and tempting people, or God's done a pretty poor job of it. Which, to be fair, is BAU for God...


While artistic depictions of Satan where influenced by pagan horned deities such as Baal and Pan, the two are not the same. Satan appears in Job, and the "son of the morning" mentioned in Isaiah is believed to be a reference of him.

If Lucifer appears in the OT and Satan doesn't, then please explain why "Satan" is derived from Hebrew whereas "Lucifer" comes from Latin. :tongue:

And Christians do believe Satan suffers in Hell, along with all other fallen angels. The image of Satan torturing people in Hell is popularized by fiction.



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08 Oct 2012, 11:32 am

Since the whole thing to me is just a badly written work of fiction, you may as well ask me why Harry Potter never references the Time Turner again after its single appearance.

As for the popularisation of imagery, remember that there are many different forms of Christianity. The one believed by many Christians is very different to the one portrayed by the book they claim to follow. Indeed, many doubters have been turned away from the faith simply by reading it.



Alfonso12345
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09 Oct 2012, 1:57 pm

Hopetobe wrote:
Alfonso12345 wrote:
I'm not sure abandoning the Christian faith because an overly-superstitious pastor thought you were demon-possessed is a good reason, thought it might be a very good reason for abandoning that specific church. Often when people leave a religion or refuse to join it for bad reasons, they might one day go back to it or join it, but might there be another reason why you left Christianity? Are the flaws in the religion itself another reason?


Yes, I started to doubt christianity for more reasons. If God is perfect and flawless, why we all were born sinners? Why did God create Satan? He must have known what would happen. Etc.


It seems that, apparently, when the first two people learned the difference between good and evil, that also included a desire to do evil, although I have no idea where that would come from. It wasn't called the "Tree that makes you want to do evil." It seems the desire to do evil must have come from somewhere... Maybe Yahweh. "Now that you know what evil is, I'm going to punish you for disobeying me once by giving the woman far more suffering than the man, and then for both of you, I will program you with a desire to sin, and make that desire genetic. Then there will be punishment for the sins that I know you will do." That is how it seems. It all seems like a big set up.