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Do you hate America and wish for it to be destroyed?

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Do you hate America and wish for it to be destoyed?
Yes, I hate America kill em all they are imperialist swine! 19%  19%  [ 6 ]
No, America is just another country just a powerful country however is still somewhat a free country that accepts all walks of life! 81%  81%  [ 25 ]
Total votes : 31

Kurgan
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02 Jul 2014, 7:01 pm

thomas81 wrote:

this is a falsehood. These American companies have a vested interest in keeping down the economies of third world nations so that they have a pool of cheap, ununionised labour from which to take advantage of. Indeed, thats what they've been successful in doing and why you are seeing a insane disparity between richest and poorest in countries like India or Thailand etc.


Compare the GDP of Botswana (who chose capitalism and trading with international corporations) to that of Zimbabwe (who chose hardcore socialism)?or better yet, compare North and South Korea.

Neither Thailand nor India are capitalist nations. The common denominator seems to be that almost all 3. world countries are socialist.

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Theres a fantastic book called 'confessions of an economic hitman' written by an ex US government employee and whistleblower that exposes these dirty dealings.


Great. Another guy who fabricates stories to make money.


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thomas81
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02 Jul 2014, 7:23 pm

Kurgan wrote:

Compare the GDP of Botswana (who chose capitalism and trading with international corporations) to that of Zimbabwe (who chose hardcore socialism)?or better yet, compare North and South Korea.

Neither Thailand nor India are capitalist nations. The common denominator seems to be that almost all 3. world countries are socialist.


GDP is not a reliable indicator of average economic efficacy. Its a measure of the overall wealth within a country, it doesnt give an idea of what proportion of people have access to a meaningful proportion of wealth.

What is more those are extreme examples that you cite. My point is that the primary driver in the west as to how it has such significantly higher wages and better rights is not because of the 'better nature' of companies, and how gains have been won such as unions, the 8 hour day and the 5 day week than so called 'Tiger economies' such as China or India is precisely because of resistance to the kinds of behaviour put in place and reinforced, with the encouragement of the american government, by these kinds of companies that outsource to asia and elsewhere.

Kurgan wrote:


Great. Another guy who fabricates stories to make money.

It wasn't fabricated. He wrote the book at great personal risk to both himself and his family.


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Last edited by thomas81 on 02 Jul 2014, 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kurgan
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02 Jul 2014, 7:29 pm

thomas81 wrote:
GDP is not a reliable indicator of average economic efficacy. Its a measure of the overall wealth within a country, it doesnt give an idea of what proportion of people have access to a meaningful proportion of wealth.


This is true. The free market prevents the politicians from stealing the wealth, like Robert Mugabe, Kim Jong-Un, and the Castro brothers have done.

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It wasn't fabricated. He wrote the book at great personal risk to both himself and his family.


How do you know it wasn't fabricated? Apart from the Mongolian Empire, the US is the only superpower with free speech. His family at the very least didn't risk anything.


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02 Jul 2014, 7:36 pm

Kurgan wrote:

This is true. The free market prevents the politicians from stealing the wealth, like Robert Mugabe, Kim Jong-Un, and the Castro brothers have done.


The free market prevents no such thing. If anything, the free market obfuscates and frustrates the distribution of wealth, as it allows crooked corporations to bribe politicians and it facilitates the kind of industrial skullduggery which undermines workers ability to resist rescinding workplace conditions and pay.


Kurgan wrote:

How do you know it wasn't fabricated? Apart from the Mongolian Empire, the US is the only superpower with free speech. His family at the very least didn't risk anything.


His job role was an 'economic hitman'. His employers were a group of very powerful people with much to lose and little to fear from silencing him in any way possible. He specifically wrote in the prologue that he was putting himself in danger and experienced a crisis of conscience while in the field because of the effects of his work he witnessed.


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RunningFox
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02 Jul 2014, 8:31 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
I was wondering since there are some who hate America and its history and wish for it to be obliterated due to the fact America doesn't take kindly to whats going on in the middle east? I admit America does have a dark past but over time has gotten better and is more open to all walks of life compared to the past and is a multiracial,multicultural nation.


America has a dark past? Sorry son but to say something like this you have to say in the context of the entire world. And in that context, our past is absolutely nothing compared to most of the rest of the world. And I am speaking as some one whos native tribe was locked on a reservation.

Nice job on the flame bait post any way.



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03 Jul 2014, 12:09 am

I don't hate america, doesn't make a lot of sense to hate a continent.....I don't care much for our current government or the over-all society in general though. There are some things going on that I think are good, was glad to hear the government finally is going to look into reclassifying cannabis since it should not be a scedule 1 drug so it would seem maybe there is some progress when it comes to less propaganda and fear mongering about cannabis and I like the states legalizing since people shouldn't be getting legal penalties for smoking a joint....but there are a lot more issues and what not so that bit doesn't exactly make up for all the other stuff that is screwed up in this country.


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03 Jul 2014, 12:20 am

RunningFox wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
I was wondering since there are some who hate America and its history and wish for it to be obliterated due to the fact America doesn't take kindly to whats going on in the middle east? I admit America does have a dark past but over time has gotten better and is more open to all walks of life compared to the past and is a multiracial,multicultural nation.


America has a dark past? Sorry son but to say something like this you have to say in the context of the entire world. And in that context, our past is absolutely nothing compared to most of the rest of the world. And I am speaking as some one whos native tribe was locked on a reservation.

Nice job on the flame bait post any way.
Its not a flame bait post it is a fact, America was founded upon the slaughtering of millions of Native Americans and built upon slavery.


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03 Jul 2014, 12:31 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
RunningFox wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
I was wondering since there are some who hate America and its history and wish for it to be obliterated due to the fact America doesn't take kindly to whats going on in the middle east? I admit America does have a dark past but over time has gotten better and is more open to all walks of life compared to the past and is a multiracial,multicultural nation.


America has a dark past? Sorry son but to say something like this you have to say in the context of the entire world. And in that context, our past is absolutely nothing compared to most of the rest of the world. And I am speaking as some one whos native tribe was locked on a reservation.

Nice job on the flame bait post any way.
Its not a flame bait post it is a fact, America was founded upon the slaughtering of millions of Native Americans and built upon slavery.


All the great nations were son. Most of the rest didnt free their slaves, they just killed them off. And unless you had Moses there was no way in hell you were going to be able to buy your freedom like the slaves could here. Its sad but the real fact is that the U.S. is absolutly nothing compared to what other nations have done. The Spanish wiped out entire ancient civilizations to our south before the U.S. was formed. You think anyone remembers that. You think that when you go to Europe and people talk about Spain they say "oh yeah didnt they wipe out South America and countless millions in Africa just like we all did back them?" No, no one says that.

Funny fact, there were black soldiers who helped to round up and kill my ancestors on these plains. That little tid bit is forgotten to history and now you still hear people who claim to represent the entirety of the black population demanding reparations. God i get a chuckle out of that, but the day it happens is the same day I either move to Japan or go back to the reservation. If the government ever even tried to get reparations for black people from me I will walk right up to Treasury, hand them some chevron beads and consider it paid in full. Or what I said earlier about leaving altogether and taking all my money.



AspieOtaku
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03 Jul 2014, 1:32 am

RunningFox wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
RunningFox wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
I was wondering since there are some who hate America and its history and wish for it to be obliterated due to the fact America doesn't take kindly to whats going on in the middle east? I admit America does have a dark past but over time has gotten better and is more open to all walks of life compared to the past and is a multiracial,multicultural nation.


America has a dark past? Sorry son but to say something like this you have to say in the context of the entire world. And in that context, our past is absolutely nothing compared to most of the rest of the world. And I am speaking as some one whos native tribe was locked on a reservation.

Nice job on the flame bait post any way.
Its not a flame bait post it is a fact, America was founded upon the slaughtering of millions of Native Americans and built upon slavery.


All the great nations were son. Most of the rest didnt free their slaves, they just killed them off. And unless you had Moses there was no way in hell you were going to be able to buy your freedom like the slaves could here. Its sad but the real fact is that the U.S. is absolutly nothing compared to what other nations have done. The Spanish wiped out entire ancient civilizations to our south before the U.S. was formed. You think anyone remembers that. You think that when you go to Europe and people talk about Spain they say "oh yeah didnt they wipe out South America and countless millions in Africa just like we all did back them?" No, no one says that.

Funny fact, there were black soldiers who helped to round up and kill my ancestors on these plains. That little tid bit is forgotten to history and now you still hear people who claim to represent the entirety of the black population demanding reparations. God i get a chuckle out of that, but the day it happens is the same day I either move to Japan or go back to the reservation. If the government ever even tried to get reparations for black people from me I will walk right up to Treasury, hand them some chevron beads and consider it paid in full. Or what I said earlier about leaving altogether and taking all my money.
Your not the only one with Native American bloodline my friend, my cousins still live in a reservation in Wyoming. My Native line is from the Black Foot tribe!


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mr_bigmouth_502
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03 Jul 2014, 3:10 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
RunningFox wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
RunningFox wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
I was wondering since there are some who hate America and its history and wish for it to be obliterated due to the fact America doesn't take kindly to whats going on in the middle east? I admit America does have a dark past but over time has gotten better and is more open to all walks of life compared to the past and is a multiracial,multicultural nation.


America has a dark past? Sorry son but to say something like this you have to say in the context of the entire world. And in that context, our past is absolutely nothing compared to most of the rest of the world. And I am speaking as some one whos native tribe was locked on a reservation.

Nice job on the flame bait post any way.
Its not a flame bait post it is a fact, America was founded upon the slaughtering of millions of Native Americans and built upon slavery.


All the great nations were son. Most of the rest didnt free their slaves, they just killed them off. And unless you had Moses there was no way in hell you were going to be able to buy your freedom like the slaves could here. Its sad but the real fact is that the U.S. is absolutly nothing compared to what other nations have done. The Spanish wiped out entire ancient civilizations to our south before the U.S. was formed. You think anyone remembers that. You think that when you go to Europe and people talk about Spain they say "oh yeah didnt they wipe out South America and countless millions in Africa just like we all did back them?" No, no one says that.

Funny fact, there were black soldiers who helped to round up and kill my ancestors on these plains. That little tid bit is forgotten to history and now you still hear people who claim to represent the entirety of the black population demanding reparations. God i get a chuckle out of that, but the day it happens is the same day I either move to Japan or go back to the reservation. If the government ever even tried to get reparations for black people from me I will walk right up to Treasury, hand them some chevron beads and consider it paid in full. Or what I said earlier about leaving altogether and taking all my money.
Your not the only one with Native American bloodline my friend, my cousins still live in a reservation in Wyoming. My Native line is from the Black Foot tribe!


Heh, I'm partially Cree. Apparently the Blackfoot and Cree were mortal enemies back in the day. :P



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03 Jul 2014, 3:57 am

I certainly don't want to see America destroyed - that's where I keep all my stuff!


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Kurgan
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03 Jul 2014, 6:57 am

thomas81 wrote:
The free market prevents no such thing. If anything, the free market obfuscates and frustrates the distribution of wealth, as it allows crooked corporations to bribe politicians and it facilitates the kind of industrial skullduggery which undermines workers ability to resist rescinding workplace conditions and pay.


Then please explain why Barak Obama's net worth is less than 1/100th of that of Fidel Castro. Drug cartels in Latin America have already bought out the Venezuelan parliament, but not the American congress.

The unemployment rate in Zimbabwe is at 80%. In Botswana, it's at 17,8%. Robert Mugabe has a net worth of 10 million dollars, because the money in an extreme-left country goes through the politicians before the people get anything.

Quote:
His job role was an 'economic hitman'. His employers were a group of very powerful people with much to lose and little to fear from silencing him in any way possible. He specifically wrote in the prologue that he was putting himself in danger and experienced a crisis of conscience while in the field because of the effects of his work he witnessed.


He wants to make money, so he writes a book that builds on the conspiracy theories people believe in. The US government does not silence people, and they do not go after the families of people either. That sounds more like something Venezuela, Cuba, the FARC guerilla, and other Marxists on the American continent would do.


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thomas81
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03 Jul 2014, 1:07 pm

Kurgan wrote:

Then please explain why Barak Obama's net worth is less than 1/100th of that of Fidel Castro. Drug cartels in Latin America have already bought out the Venezuelan parliament, but not the American congress.

The unemployment rate in Zimbabwe is at 80%. In Botswana, it's at 17,8%. Robert Mugabe has a net worth of 10 million dollars, because the money in an extreme-left country goes through the politicians before the people get anything.

Again, you're dealing with extreme case examples which i'm not referring to.

Explain to me why western European countries such as the UK, Ireland, Sweden etc have better workplace conditions, universal access to healthcare, a 8 hour day compared to economies such as India or China which are by all accounts as wealthy or even wealthier yet their citizens still reside in third world living conditions?

The reason is because in western Europe, the workforce has an established history of resisting the kind of changes that free market hawks want to see implemented with breakneck speed in countries where sweatshops are being operated.

Quote:

Kurgan wrote:
The US government does not silence people, and they do not go after the families of people either. That sounds more like something Venezuela, Cuba, the FARC guerilla, and other Marxists on the American continent would do.

Of course. The US government is whiter than white. :roll:


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03 Jul 2014, 1:15 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Again, you're dealing with extreme case examples which i'm not referring to.


The extreme case that is Zimbabwe would not be possible if the politicians had chosen capitalism.

Quote:
Explain to me why western European countries such as the UK, Ireland, Sweden etc have better workplace conditions, universal access to healthcare, a 8 hour day compared to economies such as India or China which are by all accounts as wealthy or even wealthier yet their citizens still reside in third world living conditions?


India and China are socialist countries, which stalls the economic growth, and in the end the worker's rights. Sweden has IKEA and the free market, and the free market lets you choose.

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The reason is because in western Europe, the workforce has an established history of resisting the kind of changes that free market hawks want to see implemented with breakneck speed in countries where sweatshops are being operated.


The workforce is not synonymous with socialists. (Notice how the most hard working people do not vote for socialism.)

Moreover, great countries aren't built by politicians, but by corporations and capitalists. Vanderbilt and his company did more for the US than anyone on Mt. Rushmore combined. Both Robert Bosch and Henry Ford did more in terms of worker's rights than any socialist has ever achieved.

Quote:

Quote:
Of course. The US government is whiter than white. :roll:


No governments are. They're still lightyears ahead of any socialist country in terms of free speech and wealth of the people, though.


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08 Jul 2014, 1:14 am

Kurgan wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Again, you're dealing with extreme case examples which i'm not referring to.


The extreme case that is Zimbabwe would not be possible if the politicians had chosen capitalism.

Quote:
Explain to me why western European countries such as the UK, Ireland, Sweden etc have better workplace conditions, universal access to healthcare, a 8 hour day compared to economies such as India or China which are by all accounts as wealthy or even wealthier yet their citizens still reside in third world living conditions?


India and China are socialist countries, which stalls the economic growth, and in the end the worker's rights. Sweden has IKEA and the free market, and the free market lets you choose.

Quote:
The reason is because in western Europe, the workforce has an established history of resisting the kind of changes that free market hawks want to see implemented with breakneck speed in countries where sweatshops are being operated.


The workforce is not synonymous with socialists. (Notice how the most hard working people do not vote for socialism.)

Moreover, great countries aren't built by politicians, but by corporations and capitalists. Vanderbilt and his company did more for the US than anyone on Mt. Rushmore combined. Both Robert Bosch and Henry Ford did more in terms of worker's rights than any socialist has ever achieved.

Quote:

Quote:
Of course. The US government is whiter than white. :roll:


No governments are. They're still lightyears ahead of any socialist country in terms of free speech and wealth of the people, though.


Vanderbilt, Ford, Bosch, etc didn't give me my freedom of speech, religion, to bear arms, and all the others. Being an American means more than just being rich and powerful.


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08 Jul 2014, 10:10 am

thomas81 wrote:
Explain to me why western European countries such as the UK, Ireland, Sweden etc have better workplace conditions, universal access to healthcare, a 8 hour day compared to economies such as India or China which are by all accounts as wealthy or even wealthier yet their citizens still reside in third world living conditions?

The reason is because in western Europe, the workforce has an established history of resisting the kind of changes that free market hawks want to see implemented with breakneck speed in countries where sweatshops are being operated.



India and China are not capitalist countries at all. In lists of economic freedom they rank really low, while countries that are often seen as "socialist" like the Scandinavian countries are near the top. In my view those countries are both more socialist (better working conditions, unemployment benefits, healthcare) and more capitalist (economic freedom).