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Can the Senate try Trump after his term is over?

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League_Girl
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14 Jan 2021, 12:12 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
As I see it, the point of impeaching Trump NOW is simply to remove him from the Presidency ASAP, to limit the amount of damage he can do on his way out.

See the following about his niece Mary Trump's assessments of him. Note her correct predictions of his behavior in November:

- Mary Trump warns of 'meltdowns' by Trump in next few months by Zack Budryk, The Hill, 11/09/2020.

I think she meant tantrums rather than "meltdowns" in the sense in which we use that term. Anyhow, here's what she has to say about him now:

- Mary Trump says her uncle is more desperate now and Americans should be 'both enraged and terrified' by Haven Orecchio-Egresitz, Business Insider, Jan 7, 2021:

Quote:
She told Insider she hasn't been in contact with anyone from Trump's immediate family or orbit since the publication of the book.

However, she can imagine, based on his history of narcissism, that he is more desperate now than ever.

"Donald always thinks that it's impossible for him to lose and that, no matter, what he will end up with the win, even if there are several hundred thousand asterisks after it," the president's niece said. "He's increasingly made desperate by the fact that literally nothing seems to be working. There's nobody to get him out of this."

...

Trump needs to be "impeached and removed from office immediately," his niece told Insider.

"If that doesn't happen, that is an abject failure of our system and it doesn't bode well for our very fragile, wounded democracy," she said.

Beyond that, though, if Donald Trump isn't removed before his time in office runs out, he will grow increasingly unstable, she said.

Aides to the President said this week that he was so detached from reality during the siege they had given up trying to communicate with him during the crisis.

"If you're paying attention right now, you should be both enraged and terrified," [Mary] Trump said. "It is exhausting, but necessary because when people aren't paying attention, things like yesterday are allowed to happen."

...

"We can't put anything past Donald. He's desperate, he's terrified, he has absolutely no empathy, and he's a nihilist," the president's niece added.

Based on my own impressions of Donald Trump, his niece's impressions seem entirely plausible to me.

I worry about what he might do during the remaining time. For example, I worry about more possible coup attempts accompanying the rallies this coming weekend. I also worry about him possibly seizing upon some lame excuse to get us into a nuclear war.

I see Trump as being like a toddler with the attitude that if he can't play with his toys anymore, then no one else can either. I see him as a huge threat to national security, and more dangerous now than ever before.

Best to have a quick impeachment trial TODAY (Thursday) or at the latest TOMORROW (Friday). The point is not to punish him but just to get this country, and the rest of the world, out of harm's way as soon as possible.

Bolding is mine.
Personal feelings and emotions:
From even before he was elected I have always greatly feared he would have a tantrum and get us all blown up. So far that consistent fear of mine has been Trump Derangement Syndrome. When Biden was projected the winner and all these people were out in the street celebrating I was appalled because I thought we were entering the most dangerous period of his Presidency for the reasons stated above. I thought and had for years that would be him barricading himself in the White House or even worse calling out his supporters to surround the White House and daring the military to go through them and come get him. While I was apparently wrong about that specific scenario I was unfortunately right in the larger sense.

My original scenario and nuclear annihilation seems not likely now though with such an impulsive man you can not totally rule it out.

And we will have to wait until his term is over.



Trump derangement isn't real. It's just to dismiss peoples feelings about Trump. Now there should be Biden Derangement syndrome. I saw one comment online by a minion saying "they don't want it to be the 90's again" and I wondered "what's wrong with the 90s? I found that ironic too because back in the 1990's LGBT people had less rights and more people were less tolerant of gays then and trans. Trans was unheard of by many people. We just thought trans women were men dressed up as women. We just thought it was a kinky lifestyle they had. This was my mindset then back when I was in my teens when I first heard about it early as 1998. At least if things were like the 1990's again, they would be far more accepted for their bigotry on LGBT. They wouldn't be shunned or cancelled or fired about it. Why would they not want it to be the 90's again?

Plus gay marriages were illegal back then too.


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Jiheisho
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14 Jan 2021, 12:14 pm

Mr Reynholm wrote:
Turning political differences into crimes is a very dangerous precedent. Every past president could theoretically be charged with a crime or abuse of power by the current administration. Trump has been impeached twice with no evidence, just because the opposition party could. Obama and Bushes administrations could have been charged with serious crimes but deference is usually given to past presidents.


Ignoring crimes is even more dangerous. Trump abused his office to coerce a foreign government into acting against a political opponent--and there was evidence. His second impeachment was for inciting violence to overturn a democratic election. There is evidence there as well. Lets compare those crimes to the ones the Republican filed against Clinton. He lied about an affair with an intern. I am not sure I am seeing equivalence there.

What crimes did the Bushes and Obama commit that could have led to impeachment?



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14 Jan 2021, 12:28 pm

Under Donald Trump's term of office, the National Debt increased by $7,800,000,000,000 -- when Trump was inaugurated on January 20, 2017, the national debt stood at about $19.9 trillion.  As he leaves office this month, the national debt has grown to about $27.7 trillion.  That's an increase of 39.2 percent.

The 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act pushed the national debt upward.  The tax cuts largely benefited the wealthiest Americans and corporations and left a significant shortfall in tax revenue.  The Congressional Budget Office projected in January that the annual deficit would be about $1 trillion going forward due largely to Trump's tax cuts.

So not only is Trump a traitor, he is a liar and a swindler, as well.



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14 Jan 2021, 1:29 pm

I think there were at least two good reasons to impeach Trump:

(1) For Congress to not ignore what a majority of the Congress-critters appear to see as a serious crime. The arguments some of them made against impeachment focused on whether or not impeaching Trump for his crime would help the nation to heal--but there was apparently no assertion that Trump had not committed a serious crime.

(2) To position the Senate to (hopefully) impose "disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States." The GOP might, by now, consider Trump to be enough of a liability that they would prefer to politically neutralize him like that rather than still have him campaigning for 2024.

A possible third reason probably isn't so valid:

(3) To teach Trump a lesson. It certainly didn't work last impeachment. The only lesson he seems to be learning is that the only consequences for being impeached are...um...footnotes in history books?? (Isn't all publicity good publicity?)


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auntblabby
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14 Jan 2021, 11:12 pm

the main reason for the 2017 rich folks' tax giveaway was not to further enrich the rich [that was a subsidiary reason, though] but to insure that there would not be enough money left to go to any social programs or actually benefit any of the 99% of american citizens who need help. it was a slap in the face of the meek and powerless.



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15 Jan 2021, 12:11 am

High taxes take a significant toll upon the lower middle class.



auntblabby
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15 Jan 2021, 12:14 am

not if they only apply to the 1%, as was the case in the Eisenhauer era.



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15 Jan 2021, 12:19 am

I fear they will end up paying through the nose for 2021.



auntblabby
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15 Jan 2021, 12:20 am

only deserved as for 40+ years they have skated by without paying their fair share.



ezbzbfcg2
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15 Jan 2021, 3:00 am

People are asking if the Senate can hold an impeachment trial after the impeached has left office. Good question. I'm also curious, more broadly, if the Senate is obliged to try someone impeached by House in the first place.

During the last 3 presidential impeachments (Andrew Johnson, Bill Clinton, Trump #1), the Senate held trials and acquitted. Reading the language of the Constitution, it seems as if the Senate has full discretion to hold a trial (or not) for the impeached in the first place.

If it's fully at the Senate's discretion, some may argue the Senate can indeed hold a trial for someone impeached by the House, even if they've since left office. At the same time, they don't have to hold a trial at all if they don't see fit.

The two punishments of being convicted by the Senate are: 1) Removal from office, 2) Ineligibility to hold any federal office ever again. It's unclear and undefined if one has to still be in office at the time of the Senate trial.



auntblabby
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15 Jan 2021, 3:16 am

i don't believe i will live long enough for this to fade into a distant and vague memory.



ezbzbfcg2
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15 Jan 2021, 3:22 am

auntblabby wrote:
i don't believe i will live long enough for this to fade into a distant and vague memory.


They say people dwell on things until something else comes along that replaces it. We don't know what the next administration will look like.

Recall Bush II being slammed by the media, but now he's essentially forgotten? I think the next crisis will come when Biden either dies or resigns due to age, and there's a schism in politics. Some will accuse new-president Harris of not standing by some of Biden's policies, others will praise her for doing what Biden couldn't. By the time this happens, Trump will very much be old hat.

I'm not a prophet, just speculating. Keep this in mind, remember this post. I don't think Biden has it in him to make it 4 years. Not saying I wish him ill, just a gut feeling.



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15 Jan 2021, 3:31 am

i remember the magas of day, back during bush I and II, were very similar, can't count the number of times i was berated for being a "slacker" and reminded that this was "bush country now." the same sorts of authoritarians come out of the woodwork when authoritarians are elected. IOW i still remember, unpleasantly, both bushes.



ezbzbfcg2
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15 Jan 2021, 3:47 am

auntblabby wrote:
i remember the magas of day, back during bush I and II, were very similar, can't count the number of times i was berated for being a "slacker" and reminded that this was "bush country now." the same sorts of authoritarians come out of the woodwork when authoritarians are elected. IOW i still remember, unpleasantly, both bushes.

It's funny, because Ross Perot was comparable to Trump in some ways: A billionaire able to buy his way into politics, but not part of the political Establishment. I think he played a crucial role in no-second-term for Bush I, more than we remember after 8 years of Clinton.

Bush II seemed to be living out the fantasies his daddy never got to accomplish. The tone with Trump always seemed different. Trump may be a lot of bad for many, but I wouldn't put him in that "neo-con" designation of the Bush establishmentarian political dynasty.

I wonder if the enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend even applies. You might not like Trump, neither did John Bolton. But that doesn't make Bolton any less of a neo-con and a Bushite.



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15 Jan 2021, 4:00 am

aside from perot and clinton, i would not piddle on the lot of them even if they were on fire.



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15 Jan 2021, 6:46 am

This is not going to be forgotten quickly.
I suspect the Senate will not convict Trump, which will infuriate some among the general populace and lead to further polarisation of the American people and civil unrest.