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Sedaka
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04 Sep 2007, 1:34 pm

Ragtime wrote:
spdjeanne wrote:
What constitutes a True Christian? Are only True Christians going to heaven? Who made you the judge? Isn't that up to God to decide!?


The above being the first post in the thread, there were no responses yet, but you already sound like you're yelling at them. Do you want people to answer? Why make a thread if not? Are you telling us, or asking us?


i see four sentences all ending in a "?"


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04 Sep 2007, 1:34 pm

A true Christian would be a person who follows Christ's teachings, and also His example in how He dealt with people. Among those teachings is His being God, so all true Christians must believe that. Also, He taught that He is the absolute way, the truth, and the life, and that no one goes to God except through Christ.


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04 Sep 2007, 1:41 pm

Ragtime wrote:
spdjeanne wrote:
What constitutes a True Christian? Are only True Christians going to heaven? Who made you the judge? Isn't that up to God to decide!?


The above being the first post in the thread, there were no responses yet, but you already sound like you're yelling at them. Do you want people to answer? Why make a thread if not? Are you telling us, or asking us?


Fair enough. I was pretty much just frustrated and yelling. I wasn't really expecting anyone to reply, but hoped that if someone did reply that they would make my point clearer by example. Essentially, my questions were meant to be entrapping. Pretty obnoxious, right?



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04 Sep 2007, 1:43 pm

Pandora wrote:
spdjeanne wrote:
What constitutes a True Christian? Are only True Christians going to heaven? Who made you the judge? Isn't that up to God to decide!?
And let's not forget that the people who go on the most about being true Christians are often the ones who act the least christian? If they were good Christians, their actions would bear this out. They would not have to say anything.

It's like somebody who smells really nice. They don't have to tell people "I've put on a lot of perfume or aftershave or powder". If they did say that, one might wonder what kind of smell they are trying to cover up.


Well, as the OP asked, we should first define Christian. Otherwise, the word has no meaning in mixed discussion.


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04 Sep 2007, 1:44 pm

spdjeanne wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
spdjeanne wrote:
What constitutes a True Christian? Are only True Christians going to heaven? Who made you the judge? Isn't that up to God to decide!?


The above being the first post in the thread, there were no responses yet, but you already sound like you're yelling at them. Do you want people to answer? Why make a thread if not? Are you telling us, or asking us?


Fair enough. I was pretty much just frustrated and yelling. I wasn't really expecting anyone to reply, but hoped that if someone did reply that they would make my point clearer by example. Essentially, my questions were meant to be entrapping. Pretty obnoxious, right?


Ya, I'd say. But you get points for honesty.


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spdjeanne
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04 Sep 2007, 1:45 pm

Ragtime wrote:
spdjeanne wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
spdjeanne wrote:
What constitutes a True Christian? Are only True Christians going to heaven? Who made you the judge? Isn't that up to God to decide!?


The above being the first post in the thread, there were no responses yet, but you already sound like you're yelling at them. Do you want people to answer? Why make a thread if not? Are you telling us, or asking us?


Fair enough. I was pretty much just frustrated and yelling. I wasn't really expecting anyone to reply, but hoped that if someone did reply that they would make my point clearer by example. Essentially, my questions were meant to be entrapping. Pretty obnoxious, right?


Ya, I'd say. But you get points for honesty.
:D



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04 Sep 2007, 1:46 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
1/3 yes, 2/3 no


hehe :lol: As brief as it is accurate.


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04 Sep 2007, 1:48 pm

spdjeanne wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
spdjeanne wrote:
What constitutes a True Christian? Are only True Christians going to heaven? Who made you the judge? Isn't that up to God to decide!?


The above being the first post in the thread, there were no responses yet, but you already sound like you're yelling at them. Do you want people to answer? Why make a thread if not? Are you telling us, or asking us?


Fair enough. I was pretty much just frustrated and yelling. I wasn't really expecting anyone to reply, but hoped that if someone did reply that they would make my point clearer by example. Essentially, my questions were meant to be entrapping. Pretty obnoxious, right?


this is a forums board.... this style has been done many times before.

i thought it was obvious, anyway...

some people just like to prattle


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04 Sep 2007, 2:02 pm

kreb1958 wrote:
I find that many good Christians live by example, and who only preach or share when asked for their opinion. They have an open and tolerant mind towards people who hold beliefs different from their own, and even towards people who hold to a different type or denomination of Christianity. They are willing to be inspired by people from other faith, such as Mahatma Gandhi (Hindu), Buddhists, Jains, Pagans, and many unsung heroes and caring people from all faiths Christians and otherwise.


Should I sleep well at night knowing that people with whom I'm well acquainted are on their way to Hell?
(Please answer yes or no.)

I'm not making this up. As He was leaving them for the last time, Jesus told His disciples: "Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned" (Mark 16:15-16). As a Christian -- one who believes and follows Christ -- I have to believe His statement quoted above, as well as all His other statements. Therefore, it's hard for me to sit idly by, while most people are headed for the very worst of all sufferings.

But, if I had no love for others, I would be content to be "nice" (quotes to highlight the irony) to everyone all the time, so as to be well-liked, and hide the pesky little offense of the Gospel. But to do such would be to expressly countermand my Saviour's final command, quoted above.


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04 Sep 2007, 2:09 pm

spdjeanne wrote:
kreb1958 wrote:
I find that many good Christians live by example, and who only preach or share when asked for their opinion. They have an open and tolerant mind towards people who hold beliefs different from their own, and even towards people who hold to a different type or denomination of Christianity. They are willing to be inspired by people from other faith, such as Mahatma Gandhi (Hindu), Buddhists, Jains, Pagans, and many unsung heroes and caring people from all faiths Christians and otherwise.

Whether they are true Christians remain to be seen, as definitions of what is true Christianity may vary from denomination and church and religion.


I very much appreciate your thoughtful response to my originally somewhat snotty :oops: questions. I don't think that any Christian should really use the term "true" Christian because in using the term a person automatically makes themselves the judge of who is true (going to heaven) and who is false (going to hell), and thereby they usurp the very divine authority in which they claim to believe.


No, the Bible defines what true Christians are as opposed to the fakers. People are obviously meant to read those criteria in the Bible and understand them.


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04 Sep 2007, 2:57 pm

Ragtime wrote:
spdjeanne wrote:
kreb1958 wrote:
I find that many good Christians live by example, and who only preach or share when asked for their opinion. They have an open and tolerant mind towards people who hold beliefs different from their own, and even towards people who hold to a different type or denomination of Christianity. They are willing to be inspired by people from other faith, such as Mahatma Gandhi (Hindu), Buddhists, Jains, Pagans, and many unsung heroes and caring people from all faiths Christians and otherwise.

Whether they are true Christians remain to be seen, as definitions of what is true Christianity may vary from denomination and church and religion.


I very much appreciate your thoughtful response to my originally somewhat snotty :oops: questions. I don't think that any Christian should really use the term "true" Christian because in using the term a person automatically makes themselves the judge of who is true (going to heaven) and who is false (going to hell), and thereby they usurp the very divine authority in which they claim to believe.


No, the Bible defines what true Christians are as opposed to the fakers. People are obviously meant to read those criteria in the Bible and understand them.


do you have to cross-reference ALL the versions of the Bible there are? cause clearly, there are deviations in interpretations. hence the point of this thread.


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04 Sep 2007, 3:05 pm

Sedaka wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
spdjeanne wrote:
kreb1958 wrote:
I find that many good Christians live by example, and who only preach or share when asked for their opinion. They have an open and tolerant mind towards people who hold beliefs different from their own, and even towards people who hold to a different type or denomination of Christianity. They are willing to be inspired by people from other faith, such as Mahatma Gandhi (Hindu), Buddhists, Jains, Pagans, and many unsung heroes and caring people from all faiths Christians and otherwise.

Whether they are true Christians remain to be seen, as definitions of what is true Christianity may vary from denomination and church and religion.


I very much appreciate your thoughtful response to my originally somewhat snotty :oops: questions. I don't think that any Christian should really use the term "true" Christian because in using the term a person automatically makes themselves the judge of who is true (going to heaven) and who is false (going to hell), and thereby they usurp the very divine authority in which they claim to believe.


No, the Bible defines what true Christians are as opposed to the fakers. People are obviously meant to read those criteria in the Bible and understand them.


do you have to cross-reference ALL the versions of the Bible there are? cause clearly, there are deviations in interpretations. hence the point of this thread.


My best friend is a Bible scholar, but for laymen such as myself, a side-by-side look at the NIV and the King James translations makes a good study method, and usually yields a very clear understanding of what is meant within a narrow range of possibilities. Even better are study Bibles, such as Scofield's, which explain the backgrounds of the languages, customs, and popular expressions behind the verses.


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04 Sep 2007, 3:15 pm

Oh but the question and the Doubt (which I have and that being one of the reasons) lies within the different interpretations of the Bible, and as kreb1958 said, the definition is different between different sects and churches. I don't think I get a definitive answer to that because of it, which it gets to the result of being something very personal, a thing that you choose, It seems to be like that in the end, but that doesn't do much for me about getting a definitive answer to that.


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04 Sep 2007, 5:19 pm

greenblue wrote:
Oh but the question and the Doubt (which I have and that being one of the reasons) lies within the different interpretations of the Bible, and as kreb1958 said, the definition is different between different sects and churches. I don't think I get a definitive answer to that because of it, which it gets to the result of being something very personal, a thing that you choose, It seems to be like that in the end, but that doesn't do much for me about getting a definitive answer to that.


That is a funny phenomenon, that the more specific the definition of "true" Christianity gets, the more ambiguous it seems to grow because there are so many different interpretations? That's why I think I'll leave what a "true" Christian is up to God. That isn't to say that I don't have my opinion about the definition (how could I not, being one myself), but ultimately it is just my opinion. I'm not God. In the end, I hope that God judges me more kindly than I judge myself.



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04 Sep 2007, 6:52 pm

spdjeanne wrote:
greenblue wrote:
Oh but the question and the Doubt (which I have and that being one of the reasons) lies within the different interpretations of the Bible, and as kreb1958 said, the definition is different between different sects and churches. I don't think I get a definitive answer to that because of it, which it gets to the result of being something very personal, a thing that you choose, It seems to be like that in the end, but that doesn't do much for me about getting a definitive answer to that.


That is a funny phenomenon, that the more specific the definition of "true" Christianity gets, the more ambiguous it seems to grow because there are so many different interpretations? That's why I think I'll leave what a "true" Christian is up to God. That isn't to say that I don't have my opinion about the definition (how could I not, being one myself), but ultimately it is just my opinion. I'm not God. In the end, I hope that God judges me more kindly than I judge myself.


Some people have a preference for doubt over certainty. The truly faithful in that mindset will reject truth even when it's staring them in the face. The Bible speaks of those who "exchange the truth of God for a lie". I want to discuss the dynamic of that phrase. The 'why' of it. Does the willful exchange of a truth for a lie ring true to us, or is it a foreign concept? It rings true with me, for there are plenty of pleasant lies I'd rather believe than their true counterparts.

So, I can imagine others willfully, knowingly, deciding to delude themselves from knowing an unpleasant truth, toward learning to believe a comparatively pleasant lie. This occurs in such areas as romance, in which, in the pursuit of pleasant feelings, one ignores one's first instinct about a new partner, only to later have that forboding instinct painfully confirmed.

So, I find it interesting that greenblue capitalizes "doubt", as if it deserves, at the very least, high respect. Perhaps it's his deity? (One can make anything into a "deity"/god/idol.)

Some people embrace doubt, in all cases. Such are always the last to find out a truth -- naturally, because they're constantly fleeing from truths!


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04 Sep 2007, 7:28 pm

Ragtime wrote:
spdjeanne wrote:
greenblue wrote:
Oh but the question and the Doubt (which I have and that being one of the reasons) lies within the different interpretations of the Bible, and as kreb1958 said, the definition is different between different sects and churches. I don't think I get a definitive answer to that because of it, which it gets to the result of being something very personal, a thing that you choose, It seems to be like that in the end, but that doesn't do much for me about getting a definitive answer to that.


That is a funny phenomenon, that the more specific the definition of "true" Christianity gets, the more ambiguous it seems to grow because there are so many different interpretations? That's why I think I'll leave what a "true" Christian is up to God. That isn't to say that I don't have my opinion about the definition (how could I not, being one myself), but ultimately it is just my opinion. I'm not God. In the end, I hope that God judges me more kindly than I judge myself.


Some people have a preference for doubt over certainty. The truly faithful in that mindset will reject truth even when it's staring them in the face. The Bible speaks of those who "exchange the truth of God for a lie". I want to discuss the dynamic of that phrase. The 'why' of it. Does the willful exchange of a truth for a lie ring true to us, or is it a foreign concept? It rings true with me, for there are plenty of pleasant lies I'd rather believe than their true counterparts.

So, I can imagine others willfully, knowingly, deciding to delude themselves from knowing an unpleasant truth, toward learning to believe a comparatively pleasant lie. This occurs in such areas as romance, in which, in the pursuit of pleasant feelings, one ignores one's first instinct about a new partner, only to later have that forboding instinct painfully confirmed.

So, I find it interesting that greenblue capitalizes "doubt", as if it deserves, at the very least, high respect. Perhaps it's his deity? (One can make anything into a "deity"/god/idol.)

Some people embrace doubt, in all cases. Such are always the last to find out a truth -- naturally, because they're constantly fleeing from truths!


I don't know what greenblue's intent was in capitalizing "doubt", but I'm pretty sure that it was just for emphasis or a typo. Christians tend to get very caught up in capitalizations of words like God, He, Jesus, Christian, Bible, etc. I think that it is wise to keep in mind that the way a person chooses to capitalize or not capitalize a word does not always carry the same weight that someone of a Christian background projects onto it.

As for the glorification of doubt, I can relate, having studied both Philosophy and Science. However, I think it is difficult and necessary to balance faith and doubt. I think that there is just as much a risk of loosing the truth in too much faith as in too much doubt. If you have faith in everything you are told and never question anything or think for yourself how will you know that what you're being told is true?