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cyberdad
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24 Feb 2022, 3:36 pm

ironpony wrote:
A lot of people blame Trump for deviding the country, but I think people give him way too much credit. It's the sheep that chose to follow the sheppard and the sheep did the actual deviding therefore, but everyone wants to blame the sheppard.


Some truth in this. Again, comedians seems to have more insight.

Trump was the president America deserved rather than the one they needed.



Pepe
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24 Feb 2022, 4:52 pm

I can't talk for "people", since I am a skunk, but I am not a fan.
Think about it.
A Trump and a skunk in the same room would have a powerfully unpleasant odour. 8O :mrgreen:



lostonearth35
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24 Feb 2022, 4:53 pm

Because they're stupid.



ironpony
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24 Feb 2022, 11:00 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
ironpony wrote:
A lot of people blame Trump for deviding the country, but I think people give him way too much credit. It's the sheep that chose to follow the sheppard and the sheep did the actual deviding therefore, but everyone wants to blame the sheppard.

The country was dividing up and has been for a long time. He is a genius at taking advantage of these divisions and has no compunctions about "pouring gasoline on the fire".


But what has he actually done that is bad for people, action wise? People don't like him because he is 'fowlmouthed', but is that it? When people say he is sexist and racist, what has he done to actually screw non-white people and non-males over?


Whether race, sex, gender, sexual orientation, religion or disability - trump's "leadership," resulted in a rise in hate crimes of all sorts across the USA because deplorable people interpreted his "lead," as their permission to go ahead and be awful to other people.


But why do people blame Trump for other people's hate crimes if Trump did not do anything directly? If someone commits a hate crime, and then says it's my fault, when I didn't have anything to do with it, why would people blame me, when it was the other person who committed the actual crime?

This is what I don't understand. If murderers and robbers point the finger at someone else, why do others believe them that it was that other person?



cyberdad
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25 Feb 2022, 2:09 am

In some ways Trump is an "agent provocateur" who deliberately riles up mobs of his supporters to do illegal or unethical things.



ironpony
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25 Feb 2022, 2:18 am

cyberdad wrote:
In some ways Trump is an "agent provocateur" who deliberately riles up mobs of his supporters to do illegal or unethical things.


But again, it seems to me, it's a case of the sheep are more to blame then the sheppard. It seems that Trumps followers are worse than him, yet people hate him so much.



cyberdad
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25 Feb 2022, 2:20 am

ironpony wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
In some ways Trump is an "agent provocateur" who deliberately riles up mobs of his supporters to do illegal or unethical things.


But again, it seems to me, it's a case of the sheep are more to blame then the sheppard. It seems that Trumps followers are worse than him, yet people hate him so much.


I get your point, The problem is the sheep are happy to remain sheep. I recommend reading "Animal Farm" by George Orwell to get some idea how the "masses" behave when portrayed as sheep.



blitzkrieg
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25 Feb 2022, 2:46 am

I think Trump just represents the average stupid American very well (even though Trump himself is a lot more intelligent than people give him credit for).

Hamburgers, fries, big & environmentally unfriendly cars, guns, entrepreneurship & flagrant misogyny.

For Republicans, this is the perfect antidote to misandrist, excessively feminist democrats.



ironpony
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25 Feb 2022, 3:01 am

Well a lot of people refer to Trump as an idiot but that the same time, accuse him from getting his money from unknown sources and accuse him of other crimes that he was investigated for. But if the government's top investigators can never catch him, than he is either an idiot, who hasn't committed any crimes, and thus clean to investigators, or he is a genius that not even the top investigators in the country can get. I feel like it's most likely the former though.



cyberdad
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25 Feb 2022, 3:13 am

ironpony wrote:
But if the government's top investigators can never catch him, than he is either an idiot, who hasn't committed any crimes, and thus clean to investigators, or he is a genius that not even the top investigators in the country can get. I feel like it's most likely the former though.


I think they couldn't "touch" him when he was POTUS for reasons of national security. While he's the frontrunner for the 2024 elections he probably still "hands off"....for now.



ironpony
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25 Feb 2022, 3:27 am

cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But if the government's top investigators can never catch him, than he is either an idiot, who hasn't committed any crimes, and thus clean to investigators, or he is a genius that not even the top investigators in the country can get. I feel like it's most likely the former though.


I think they couldn't "touch" him when he was POTUS for reasons of national security. While he's the frontrunner for the 2024 elections he probably still "hands off"....for now.


But President's have been investigated for crimes before without it being a national security issue. Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton for example? How is this a national security matter, compared to other President's doing illegal things?



cyberdad
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25 Feb 2022, 4:12 am

ironpony wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But if the government's top investigators can never catch him, than he is either an idiot, who hasn't committed any crimes, and thus clean to investigators, or he is a genius that not even the top investigators in the country can get. I feel like it's most likely the former though.


I think they couldn't "touch" him when he was POTUS for reasons of national security. While he's the frontrunner for the 2024 elections he probably still "hands off"....for now.


But President's have been investigated for crimes before without it being a national security issue. Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton for example? How is this a national security matter, compared to other President's doing illegal things?


Bill Clinton was investigated but never booted out of office, Nixon's case was exceptional as he was recorded.



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25 Feb 2022, 12:32 pm

ironpony wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
ironpony wrote:
A lot of people blame Trump for deviding the country, but I think people give him way too much credit. It's the sheep that chose to follow the sheppard and the sheep did the actual deviding therefore, but everyone wants to blame the sheppard.

The country was dividing up and has been for a long time. He is a genius at taking advantage of these divisions and has no compunctions about "pouring gasoline on the fire".


But what has he actually done that is bad for people, action wise? People don't like him because he is 'fowlmouthed', but is that it? When people say he is sexist and racist, what has he done to actually screw non-white people and non-males over?


Whether race, sex, gender, sexual orientation, religion or disability - trump's "leadership," resulted in a rise in hate crimes of all sorts across the USA because deplorable people interpreted his "lead," as their permission to go ahead and be awful to other people.


But why do people blame Trump for other people's hate crimes if Trump did not do anything directly? If someone commits a hate crime, and then says it's my fault, when I didn't have anything to do with it, why would people blame me, when it was the other person who committed the actual crime?

This is what I don't understand. If murderers and robbers point the finger at someone else, why do others believe them that it was that other person?


Do you understand the concepts of leadership, celebrity status, and influence etc? trump's absolutely deplorable example of "leadership," led to mentally unstable Americans believing they had the president of the united states' blessing to carry out hate crimes, so, they did.

It's not too dissimilar from far right wing talking heads in the propaganda media saying absurd things resulting in stochastic terrorism. The more these horrible people on TV and radio talk negatively about "others," and dehumanize them, blame them for all of society's problems, the more likely some unhinged person is going to go and commit acts of violence against them.

trump had the world's biggest soapbox to express his opinions.. and his opinions were downright nasty and vulgar, and some not-so-bright-people decided to act on the things he said, targeting the people he targeted with his words. Some murdered trans people, others sent bombs to political rivals. trump didn't murder anyone with his hands or send bombs to democrats, but he knew damned well what he was doing when saying all those inflammatory things - that he could drop comment after comment until some crazy person or another would go ahead and actually lash out in violence towards the people he demonized from his bully pulpit.


_________________
No :heart: for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.


blitzkrieg
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25 Feb 2022, 12:38 pm

I think most of the allegations of actual sexual assault aimed at Trump are actually probably untrue. Although he is hideous to most women - he has a lot of money and the women accusing him of rape probably took money from him for anything we gave him in terms of coitus.

So, I guess from Trump's perspective it would be business, although it got personal with one of the women he slept with a while back, I can't remember her name as I don't follow Trump news much and haven't done for a long time.

Anyway, I believe Trump is scared of women. That is my opinion - and which is why he figuratively busts our balls so often. He probably thinks we are better than him in some respects (which we are in many respects).

https://www.gq.com/story/trump-doesnt-hate-women-hes-afraid-of-them



Last edited by blitzkrieg on 25 Feb 2022, 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ironpony
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25 Feb 2022, 12:39 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
ironpony wrote:
A lot of people blame Trump for deviding the country, but I think people give him way too much credit. It's the sheep that chose to follow the sheppard and the sheep did the actual deviding therefore, but everyone wants to blame the sheppard.

The country was dividing up and has been for a long time. He is a genius at taking advantage of these divisions and has no compunctions about "pouring gasoline on the fire".


But what has he actually done that is bad for people, action wise? People don't like him because he is 'fowlmouthed', but is that it? When people say he is sexist and racist, what has he done to actually screw non-white people and non-males over?


Whether race, sex, gender, sexual orientation, religion or disability - trump's "leadership," resulted in a rise in hate crimes of all sorts across the USA because deplorable people interpreted his "lead," as their permission to go ahead and be awful to other people.


But why do people blame Trump for other people's hate crimes if Trump did not do anything directly? If someone commits a hate crime, and then says it's my fault, when I didn't have anything to do with it, why would people blame me, when it was the other person who committed the actual crime?

This is what I don't understand. If murderers and robbers point the finger at someone else, why do others believe them that it was that other person?


Do you understand the concepts of leadership, celebrity status, and influence etc? trump's absolutely deplorable example of "leadership," led to mentally unstable Americans believing they had the president of the united states' blessing to carry out hate crimes, so, they did.

It's not too dissimilar from far right wing talking heads in the propaganda media saying absurd things resulting in stochastic terrorism. The more these horrible people on TV and radio talk negatively about "others," and dehumanize them, blame them for all of society's problems, the more likely some unhinged person is going to go and commit acts of violence against them.

trump had the world's biggest soapbox to express his opinions.. and his opinions were downright nasty and vulgar, and some not-so-bright-people decided to act on the things he said, targeting the people he targeted with his words. Some murdered trans people, others sent bombs to political rivals. trump didn't murder anyone with his hands or send bombs to democrats, but he knew damned well what he was doing when saying all those inflammatory things - that he could drop comment after comment until some crazy person or another would go ahead and actually lash out in violence towards the people he demonized from his bully pulpit.


Did Trump actually say go out and do this though, or were the crazy people just blaming him as an excuse of their own actions?



ironpony
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25 Feb 2022, 12:40 pm

cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But if the government's top investigators can never catch him, than he is either an idiot, who hasn't committed any crimes, and thus clean to investigators, or he is a genius that not even the top investigators in the country can get. I feel like it's most likely the former though.


I think they couldn't "touch" him when he was POTUS for reasons of national security. While he's the frontrunner for the 2024 elections he probably still "hands off"....for now.


But President's have been investigated for crimes before without it being a national security issue. Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton for example? How is this a national security matter, compared to other President's doing illegal things?


Bill Clinton was investigated but never booted out of office, Nixon's case was exceptional as he was recorded.


Clinton resigned though didn't he, so he wouldn't have done so, unless out of pressure of being booted out, so that fear would have been legitimate and real.