Has the average level of intelligence went down?

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pbcoll
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27 Sep 2009, 1:56 pm

Orwell wrote:

pbcoll wrote:

Not sure about that, in classical Athens even the slaves were literate, and it's perfectly possible to be in school but be functionally illiterate. But yes, in the West literacy rates are probably higher than at any time since the descent into barbarism after the fall of Rome.

No, the bulk of helots and other manual laborers in ancient Greece would never have been literate. Probably most of those considered citizens would have been at least somewhat literate, but that was a small minority of the population.

I remember reading in Plato at one point a slave being asked to read a text out loud. So at least some of the slaves were certainly literate enough to read out loud a text intelligibly without prior preparation or warning.

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Orwell
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27 Sep 2009, 2:02 pm

pbcoll wrote:

Indeed, some slaves were literate. The Romans used Greek slaves as tutors for their children. But these were not the same slaves who tilled the fields.

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28 Oct 2009, 7:17 pm

Besides me, how many readers laughed aloud at the title of this thread?

"Has... IQ WENT down?"

At first I wondered if you were being witty.
But apparently the irony was unintentional.

I know grammar doesnt necessarily correlate with IQ, but..
It doesnt help a thread about intelligence if you give it an unintelligent sounding title.

I guess the national IQ has GONE down.. if no one but me is bothered by the fact that you asked if IQ has "went" down!

ruveyn
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28 Oct 2009, 7:32 pm

Bozewani wrote:

I feel like as we go on, the average level of intelligence has gone down. Look at today's music, movies and pop culture obsessions.

Look at public policy decisions. Twenty years, America would have never invaded Iraq.

Indeed, intelligence has gone down.

So you say, but there is contrary data:

See
http://www.science.org.au/nova/newscien ... ns_001.htm

The article says IQ scores are rising.

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phil777
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29 Oct 2009, 12:20 am

The same article say that we become more tolerant to violence. <.< Is that your idea of an intelligent way to solve problems?

ruveyn
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29 Oct 2009, 8:52 am

phil777 wrote:

The same article say that we become more tolerant to violence. <.< Is that your idea of an intelligent way to solve problems?

Our tolerance of violence (a term with a fuzzy meaning, by the way) has nothing to do with our abstract ability to solve problems which is what intelligence is.

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phil777
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29 Oct 2009, 9:03 am

Hrmph... But isn't the term "violence" itself an abstract concept? And by so, wouldn't it make its way into one's reasoning when solving said problems? (example: you found a locked door, do you a) smash it open? b) ask someone for help? c) try to lock pick it? d) find the key? )

ruveyn
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29 Oct 2009, 9:13 am

phil777 wrote:

First I would try b, then d, then c and then a.

Low energy solutions are the best solutions.

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Vexcalibur
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29 Oct 2009, 9:16 am

Roman wrote:

Actually about 10 years ago or so I read an article that IQ-s go up, and that was explained by the popularity of video games that train performance IQ. However, it was also noticed that verbal component of IQ goes down, and that is because school and reading gets out of favor. Nevertheless, the performance IQ outweighs the verbal, so the total IQ goes up and they have to constantly readjust the scaling in order to keep 100 the average.

However, IQ is not everything. As far as actual education system, I agree that it gets worse as far as USA is concerned, although I don't know about other countries. I heard many possible reasons why it happens. One such reason is that they are trying to accomodate black students more and more. The other reason is that, as I mentioned, ppl get more and more preoccupied with TV and video games so they don't have time to study properly; and then schools try to lower the education in order not to fail too many students.

I am not sure about countries other than USA though. In Russia education became better rather than worse, as now they are studying calculus in high school over there, while back in 1960-s when my father was in school calculus used to be a college subject. But again, since calculus has been high school subject in Russia for at least two decades, it is not an evidence for any RECENT improvement, so it is conceivable that, for instance, while they still teach calculus in high school, perhaps they don't go as deep as they went two decades ago. But again I don't have evidence for that either, thats pure speculation.

Average IQ is defined to be always 100, so that article is probably bull...

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phil777
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29 Oct 2009, 9:17 am

Yep, now would someone conditioned by "shoot'em up" and gore video games have taken the same path as you did?

Oh and Vex, i reckon that when selective pressure is applied, you get a response (which can be 0 as well, hence no change) from which you can create a new average. This is how you do "artificial selection" in genetics.

Ahaseurus2000
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29 Oct 2009, 10:27 pm

Television and google probably haven't helped. Interaction with the environment and other people stimulates the growth of intelligence, and T.V. doesn't. Having to learn manual techniques of doing things, from physical labours to maths calculations, exercises the mind and teaches us how to discover such manual techniques, something that Google and Calculators short circuit.

Intelligence is earned with effort and practice. The "Wonders" present in our Age take neither.

Roman
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30 Oct 2009, 12:38 am

Vexcalibur wrote:

Roman wrote:

Average IQ is defined to be always 100, so that article is probably bull...

According to that article they have to constantly shift the scale in order to maintain average IQ of 100. So when it says IQ goes up what they mean is that it would have been going up if they didn't adjust the scale.

iamnotaparakeet
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30 Oct 2009, 1:15 am

I know there are plenty of people more intelligent than I am, but here are the results of the intelligence component of the testing I received at Frasier when I was diagnosed with Asperger's in 2004:

========================================
Intellectual abilities
========================================

"Ben's performance on the WAIS-III is summarized below. It should be noticed that scaled scores of 8 to 12 and intellectual quotients of 90 to 109 define an average range of ability."

Vocabulary 13
Similarities 15
Arithmetic 16
Digit Span 8
Information 17
Comprehension 10
Letter-Number Sequencing 9
Picture Completion 11
Digit Symbol-Coding 7
Block Design 17
Matrix Reasoning 13
Picture Arrangement 8

Verbal IQ 119
Verbal Comprehension Index 129
Performance IQ 106
Perceptual Organization Index 121
Full Scale IQ 114
Working Memory Index 106

raisedbyignorance
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30 Oct 2009, 8:20 pm

Maybe it's just me but there seems to be a lot more nerds and geeks in modern society than many years ago.

I cant turn a corner without running into one

I'm an aspie and this kind of thing terrifies me. go figure

protest_the_hero
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31 Oct 2009, 8:24 pm

The decline of popular culture is because of immigration and the invasion of Iraq was serving the interests of Israel. There I go with the crazy racist conspiracy theories :roll:

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31 Oct 2009, 8:34 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

No processing speed index scores?

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