God doesn't seem to exist!
Terrestrial origins – organic synthesis driven by impact shocks or by other energy sources (such as ultraviolet light, redox coupling, or electrical discharges) (e.g. Miller's experiments)
Extraterrestrial origins – formation of organic molecules in interstellar dust clouds and rained down on planets.
Yes, I for one, understand what 'you' mean.
'Where did the ingredients for
life actually originate'.
You and Guzzle both quoted the answer I gave (from a wiki). What exactly is wrong with that answer?
I was asking about the ingredients that started it all.
Where do the gasses that make up interstellar dustclouds originate?
Long before the galactic environment was capable of supporting abiogenesis or stellar nucleosynthesis.
How did the singularity come to be?
Hoggie understood that's what I was asking. He did read the question properly...
Terrestrial origins – organic synthesis driven by impact shocks or by other energy sources (such as ultraviolet light, redox coupling, or electrical discharges) (e.g. Miller's experiments)
Extraterrestrial origins – formation of organic molecules in interstellar dust clouds and rained down on planets.
Yes, I for one, understand what 'you' mean.
'Where did the ingredients for
life actually originate'.
You and Guzzle both quoted the answer I gave (from a wiki). What exactly is wrong with that answer?
^^^
See above,
from the questioner.
I like the quote;
It's just not what guzzle asked.
_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI
Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !
http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick
Terrestrial origins – organic synthesis driven by impact shocks or by other energy sources (such as ultraviolet light, redox coupling, or electrical discharges) (e.g. Miller's experiments)
Extraterrestrial origins – formation of organic molecules in interstellar dust clouds and rained down on planets.
Yes, I for one, understand what 'you' mean.
'Where did the ingredients for
life actually originate'.
You and Guzzle both quoted the answer I gave (from a wiki). What exactly is wrong with that answer?
I was asking about the ingredients that started it all.
Where do the gasses that make up interstellar dustclouds originate?
Long before the galactic environment was capable of supporting abiogenesis or stellar nucleosynthesis.
How did the singularity come to be?
Hoggie understood that's what I was asking. He did read the question properly...
The fact that we don't understand all the details doesn't require a God to exist and be the creator. In fact, that smacks of magic, not science... Science is comfortable with not having every answer...
Reality is that scientists are not happy with not having every answer. They keep theorizing, have to really as their theories don't add up as it stands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_un ... in_physics
Funny also how you refer to science as an entity rather than a tool.
Reality is that scientists are not happy with not having every answer. They keep theorizing, have to really as their theories don't add up as it stands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_un ... in_physics
Funny also how you refer to science as an entity rather than a tool.
Probably better than calling you a tool...
Hmm; speaking of tools..
I personally always see science as a mindless tool, in terms of the scientific method, from the time I am a research associate in Archeology at the University level; A human being out in nature, digging, digging all day long with the already knowledge; that yes, with enough work; one will find bone fragments, charcoal, pottery shards, and other artifacts of human subsistence. And then there is the tedious menial lab work of hours upon hours of mechanical cognition in weighing, bagging, and labeling subsistence stuff, hour upon hour, of true human insanity.
The problem is the solution is already known. American Indians live in the area in various places; but we wanna find out precisely where they live. Oh God; 'what fresh hell is that'; but hell of already knowing the issue without having to know all the dirty details from sand to charcoal to bone and what nots to survive.
This is the problem with science; oh GOD it is so slow and boring; now don't get me wrong; I'm happy that folks sacrifice their much fuller humanity to spend decades of tedious mechanical cognition ways of restricted being to bring the comforts of life to me, in greater and greater cultural amenities; but seriously, STUFF IS NOT THE STUFF that leads to continual human joy in living.
All that REAL stuff, is internal stuff, with the connecting environment of nature; including humans, YES, other flesh and blood HUMANS; AND THE REST OF FRIGGING NATURE, as humans are simply and complexly evolved to live.
The problem is when humans become the extensions of their tools; and this is a common illness of cultural induced true insanity.
I cannot convince my wife that she is an animal; I mean seriously, she will not even entertain the idea. That is beyond sad; but truly it is the result of her fundie religious upbringing that puts humans above the rest of animal nature.
But the problem is; that fundie science beliefs and ways of life are no less deleterious to a full life of living in joy as a human being.
Even science shows now; that a life spent in mechanical leaning cognition activities only (i.e. systemizing science mind) represses the empathic, creative, artistic connecting to other flesh and blood humans in social cognition in the physical intelligence of living life in joy.
That's a serious problem of our modern cultures where humans become the tools of mechanical cognition (i.e. robot humans) instead of full humanity in mind and body balance able to reason the failures of the past into the successes of the future; but most importantly, to feel and connect as part of the interconnecting interdependent relationship of all of nature that truly is the REAL FORCE OF EXISTENTIAL INTELLIGENCE that does exist.
Science is just a tool. To become a tool, is well, not so WELL; just to become a tool.
There is a danger in that of real human misery and suffering. And even science
understands now that a deficits in physical intelligence in ways of regulating
emotions, integrating senses; and increasing cognitive executive functioning
through greater focus and short term memory, is a causal factor for
at least some forms of what is described as the abstract construct
of Autism Spectrum Disorder; as constructed by members
of the American Psychological Association, who truly
only assess the behavioral deficits as such, rather
than any innate potential causal factors.
Problem though is it is considered
politically incorrect now to suggest
that parental coldness in nurturing
is a causal factor too; when scientists
determine there are genetic causes too,
like fragile X syndrome; WELL guess what;
now science shows that the so-called 'Re-
frigerator Mother Theory of Autism has at
least some causal factoring effect too, as children
who are not properly nurtured in terms of touchy
feely parental or other surrogate nurturing during
the first two years of life do not develop the wiring
to feel love in terms of oxytocin ways of bonding, as
reward of social cooperation with other human beings.
These are common sense things that the political correct
ethics of science has fallen behind on; that is easily visible
to any social worker; working with cold hearted parental
families with their faces stuck in work and play electronic
devices; while empty armed children do not get enough
hugs to live as human connecting individuals to the
rest of other humans; in the number ONE scientific
assessed factor of human happiness; that is
the flesh and blood connection
to other human beings.
And then there is the issue
of recess and physical education;
dropping by the way-side of much more
importance placed on spoon-fed; sit your
butt still and quiet; in class DOMINATION
OVER potential freedom of human mind
and body balance; taken away by
THE TRUE INSANITY OF STUPIDITY
OF science ways of systemizing
thinking human beings making
an entire generation, the metaphor
of the Zombie Apocalypse come true;
And science itself mirrors back the errors
of ways of cultural insanity in systemizing
ways of living in a head; instead of much
greater physical intelligence, per social
cognition, as studies of college age
adults show empirical measures
of empathy dropping as much
as 30 percent, in just several
decades toward the
RISE of the
ZOMBIE
APOCALYPSE,
COME TRUE TO NOW.
GOD IS THE INTERCONNECTING
RELATIONSHIP OF ALL STUFF SEEN
AND UNSEEN, KNOWN AND UNKNOWN,
FELT AND NOT FELT; And truly the biggest of
problems today; limiting feeling this interconnected
relationship of all things, starting with human social
cognition that is also directly related to feeling empathy
with the rest of nature; not just human nature; human beings
have oxytocin receptors in the bottom of their feet; not just to
connect to mom and dad; but as naturally evolved by the GOD of Nature
to connect to the soil of earth that supports all life on this planet as is, NOW.
Truly perhaps, one of the saddest things of all of life, is adult feet rarely
touch the sand barefoot; and the skin of the entire body rarely touches
the face of the sun in warmth and natural nourishment in greater
potential strength through beneficial neurohormones and
neuro-chemicals. People hide in the shades of
fear of skin cancer; people wear shoes
in the fear of sand worms; and people
lather themselves up with anti-bacterial
soap in the fear of germs; and folks
wonder why they are too weak to
even feel good in the world
they live in, with emptiness.
The answer
is clear.
God is nature.
There are laws of this
God of nature that apply to humans
without intentional prejudice; and to
GO AGAINST THIS GOD OF NATURE
PER THE FORCES AND LAWS OF THE
INTERCONNECTING RELATIONSHIP
THAT IS PRECISELY THIS GOD
OF NATURE IS The main
cause of human
suffering and
misery through
the chronic
stress of living
against nature
and human nature;
instead of living
with the God of nature
in harmony of nature
manifest in human being.
Meanwhile, scientists spend their
life proving life comes from nothing
and in doing so, more or less, they
become nothing in greater innate
instinctual and intuitive POTENTIAL
REAL HUMAN NATURE
IN SIMPLE BLISS AND
JOY; not unlike a cat
rolling around in the
sand of a noon day
sun; or hugging
the grass in the
light of a
full moon
night.
LIFE IS POETRY, DANCE
AND SONG; TRULY ART.
SCIENCE
IS
SCIENCE
IS
SCIENCE
AND done to the exclusion
of life is well; unwell; just plain
REAL FLESH AND BLOOD LIFE
INSANITY.
But it takes nurturing parents;
a village of caring people;
and a life spent connecting
to other flesh and blood
humans barefoot on
sand and naked
free under the
Sun of God;
to have
any frigging
clue; what I am
even speaking of here;
In fact, science suggests
that there is NO THERAPY
THAT will work for a child
not properly nurtured in
touchY feelY love the
first two years
of life.
But don't tell parents
with their nose stuck in
their electronic devices
that the 'Refrigerator
Mother Theory' is
A REAL DEAL;
AND PERHAPS,
the worst thing
that can happen
to any human
being anywhere
in terms of
A GREAT SUCCESSFUL
LIFE OR MISERY AND
SUFFERING LIFELONG;
in ways of bullying other
folks; addiction of all
kinds; and just plain
human hell come truth;
WheRe the chalice of
potential love of human
being is empty, and never
'FEELED' enough to suffice
continuous joy in living life
and connecting to other
flesh and blood humans
and THE REST OF NATURE
AKA
GOD.
Believe it or not; it's truth;
tough love truth; but
never the less,
truth; and
worth
changing
for greater human
potential of simple
joys of life if;
at all
possible...
Take it with a grain of sand
if one likes; but that may
be just what one's
feet are starving
for; in terms
of loving Nature
as all of GOD.
American Indians rarely
doubt this truth;
and neither does
the same blood
of the Sioux
dancers and
Cherokee
artists who
live in my
ancestral
BLOOD
NOW.
_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI
Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !
http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick
Yes, no need to call anyone a tool.
I think he means "the scientific community" when he speaks of science as an entity. Science is still the method and/or the more nebulous concept of knowledge.
_________________
I'm bored out of my skull, let's play a different game. Let's pay a visit down below and cast the world in flame.

I personally always see science as a mindless tool, in terms of the scientific method, from the time I am a research associate in Archeology at the University level; A human being out in nature, digging, digging all day long with the already knowledge; that yes, with enough work; one will find bone fragments, charcoal, pottery shards, and other artifacts of human subsistence. And then there is the tedious menial lab work of hours upon hours of mechanical cognition in weighing, bagging, and labeling subsistence stuff, hour upon hour, of true human insanity.
The problem is the solution is already known. American Indians live in the area in various places; but we wanna find out precisely where they live. Oh God; 'what fresh hell is that'; but hell of already knowing the issue without having to know all the dirty details from sand to charcoal to bone and what nots to survive.
This is the problem with science; oh GOD it is so slow and boring; now don't get me wrong; I'm happy that folks sacrifice their much fuller humanity to spend decades of tedious mechanical cognition ways of restricted being to bring the comforts of life to me, in greater and greater cultural amenities; but seriously, STUFF IS NOT THE STUFF that leads to continual human joy in living.
All that REAL stuff, is internal stuff, with the connecting environment of nature; including humans, YES, other flesh and blood HUMANS; AND THE REST OF FRIGGING NATURE, as humans are simply and complexly evolved to live.
The problem is when humans become the extensions of their tools; and this is a common illness of cultural induced true insanity.
I cannot convince my wife that she is an animal; I mean seriously, she will not even entertain the idea. That is beyond sad; but truly it is the result of her fundie religious upbringing that puts humans above the rest of animal nature.
But the problem is; that fundie science beliefs and ways of life are no less deleterious to a full life of living in joy as a human being.
Even science shows now; that a life spent in mechanical leaning cognition activities only (i.e. systemizing science mind) represses the empathic, creative, artistic connecting to other flesh and blood humans in social cognition in the physical intelligence of living life in joy.
That's a serious problem of our modern cultures where humans become the tools of mechanical cognition (i.e. robot humans) instead of full humanity in mind and body balance able to reason the failures of the past into the successes of the future; but most importantly, to feel and connect as part of the interconnecting interdependent relationship of all of nature that truly is the REAL FORCE OF EXISTENTIAL INTELLIGENCE that does exist.
Science is just a tool. To become a tool, is well, not so WELL; just to become a tool.
There is a danger in that of real human misery and suffering. And even science
understands now that a deficits in physical intelligence in ways of regulating
emotions, integrating senses; and increasing cognitive executive functioning
through greater focus and short term memory, is a causal factor for
at least some forms of what is described as the abstract construct
of Autism Spectrum Disorder; as constructed by members
of the American Psychological Association, who truly
only assess the behavioral deficits as such, rather
than any innate potential causal factors.
Problem though is it is considered
politically incorrect now to suggest
that parental coldness in nurturing
is a causal factor too; when scientists
determine there are genetic causes too,
like fragile X syndrome; WELL guess what;
now science shows that the so-called 'Re-
frigerator Mother Theory of Autism has at
least some causal factoring effect too, as children
who are not properly nurtured in terms of touchy
feely parental or other surrogate nurturing during
the first two years of life do not develop the wiring
to feel love in terms of oxytocin ways of bonding, as
reward of social cooperation with other human beings.
These are common sense things that the political correct
ethics of science has fallen behind on; that is easily visible
to any social worker; working with cold hearted parental
families with their faces stuck in work and play electronic
devices; while empty armed children do not get enough
hugs to live as human connecting individuals to the
rest of other humans; in the number ONE scientific
assessed factor of human happiness; that is
the flesh and blood connection
to other human beings.
And then there is the issue
of recess and physical education;
dropping by the way-side of much more
importance placed on spoon-fed; sit your
butt still and quiet; in class DOMINATION
OVER potential freedom of human mind
and body balance; taken away by
THE TRUE INSANITY OF STUPIDITY
OF science ways of systemizing
thinking human beings making
an entire generation, the metaphor
of the Zombie Apocalypse come true;
And science itself mirrors back the errors
of ways of cultural insanity in systemizing
ways of living in a head; instead of much
greater physical intelligence, per social
cognition, as studies of college age
adults show empirical measures
of empathy dropping as much
as 30 percent, in just several
decades toward the
RISE of the
ZOMBIE
APOCALYPSE,
COME TRUE TO NOW.
GOD IS THE INTERCONNECTING
RELATIONSHIP OF ALL STUFF SEEN
AND UNSEEN, KNOWN AND UNKNOWN,
FELT AND NOT FELT; And truly the biggest of
problems today; limiting feeling this interconnected
relationship of all things, starting with human social
cognition that is also directly related to feeling empathy
with the rest of nature; not just human nature; human beings
have oxytocin receptors in the bottom of their feet; not just to
connect to mom and dad; but as naturally evolved by the GOD of Nature
to connect to the soil of earth that supports all life on this planet as is, NOW.
Truly perhaps, one of the saddest things of all of life, is adult feet rarely
touch the sand barefoot; and the skin of the entire body rarely touches
the face of the sun in warmth and natural nourishment in greater
potential strength through beneficial neurohormones and
neuro-chemicals. People hide in the shades of
fear of skin cancer; people wear shoes
in the fear of sand worms; and people
lather themselves up with anti-bacterial
soap in the fear of germs; and folks
wonder why they are too weak to
even feel good in the world
they live in, with emptiness.
The answer
is clear.
God is nature.
There are laws of this
God of nature that apply to humans
without intentional prejudice; and to
GO AGAINST THIS GOD OF NATURE
PER THE FORCES AND LAWS OF THE
INTERCONNECTING RELATIONSHIP
THAT IS PRECISELY THIS GOD
OF NATURE IS The main
cause of human
suffering and
misery through
the chronic
stress of living
against nature
and human nature;
instead of living
with the God of nature
in harmony of nature
manifest in human being.
Meanwhile, scientists spend their
life proving life comes from nothing
and in doing so, more or less, they
become nothing in greater innate
instinctual and intuitive POTENTIAL
REAL HUMAN NATURE
IN SIMPLE BLISS AND
JOY; not unlike a cat
rolling around in the
sand of a noon day
sun; or hugging
the grass in the
light of a
full moon
night.
LIFE IS POETRY, DANCE
AND SONG; TRULY ART.
SCIENCE
IS
SCIENCE
IS
SCIENCE
AND done to the exclusion
of life is well; unwell; just plain
REAL FLESH AND BLOOD LIFE
INSANITY.
But it takes nurturing parents;
a village of caring people;
and a life spent connecting
to other flesh and blood
humans barefoot on
sand and naked
free under the
Sun of God;
to have
any frigging
clue; what I am
even speaking of here;
In fact, science suggests
that there is NO THERAPY
THAT will work for a child
not properly nurtured in
touchY feelY love the
first two years
of life.
But don't tell parents
with their nose stuck in
their electronic devices
that the 'Refrigerator
Mother Theory' is
A REAL DEAL;
AND PERHAPS,
the worst thing
that can happen
to any human
being anywhere
in terms of
A GREAT SUCCESSFUL
LIFE OR MISERY AND
SUFFERING LIFELONG;
in ways of bullying other
folks; addiction of all
kinds; and just plain
human hell come truth;
WheRe the chalice of
potential love of human
being is empty, and never
'FEELED' enough to suffice
continuous joy in living life
and connecting to other
flesh and blood humans
and THE REST OF NATURE
AKA
GOD.
Believe it or not; it's truth;
tough love truth; but
never the less,
truth; and
worth
changing
for greater human
potential of simple
joys of life if;
at all
possible...
Take it with a grain of sand
if one likes; but that may
be just what one's
feet are starving
for; in terms
of loving Nature
as all of GOD.
American Indians rarely
doubt this truth;
and neither does
the same blood
of the Sioux
dancers and
Cherokee
artists who
live in my
ancestral
BLOOD
NOW.
Yada, yada,yada...
Very cute. Tell me, why do you not have to justify your rejection of the myriad of gods humankind have conjured up though the ages, but I have to justify my rejection of your particular ones claims, or accept him by default? If holy texts have any claim to be revealed truths, then there are much more impressive ones out there.
That your ideology is sustained by irrelevancies and absurdities should be a clue that it is detached from reality.
DentArthurDent
Veteran

Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,884
Location: Victoria, Australia
And WHERE did THEY originate?
You know, them basic ingredients...
Not a god believer me, just wondering like...
Well if you are not indoctrinated against research go look into Origins of Life Science. Or more precisely have a look at how chemicals and minerals react. Where did the minerals come from? The Universe? where did the universe come from? who knows. But at least we know the universe exists, the god botherers will tell me that God created the universe then smugly tell me that God is un-caused and this is a self evident truth. For this they have no evidence, yet will proclaim it as if they had shaken the dudes hand whilst having a beer with him as he created the universe.
_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams
"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx
DentArthurDent
Veteran

Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,884
Location: Victoria, Australia
Ah David you would no doubt be aware that these "fanciful speculations" and accompanying experiments work within natural laws, this is the point of them, they are not based on supernatural speculation. All the stuff in Origins of life science is really good science. Of course we could use Aristotelian/Scholastic methods of logic and philosophy without resorting to evidence from nature and see where that gets us, oh hang on we did that for 1500 years and the end result of that was a belief in spontaneous generation that held sway until the advent of what we now call science in the 17th century and finally put to bed by Pasteur.
_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams
"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx
Ah David you would no doubt be aware that these "fanciful speculations" and accompanying experiments work within natural laws, this is the point of them, they are not based on supernatural speculation. All the stuff in Origins of life science is really good science. Of course we could use Aristotelian/Scholastic methods of logic and philosophy without resorting to evidence from nature and see where that gets us, oh hang on we did that for 1500 years and the end result of that was a belief in spontaneous generation that held sway until the advent of what we now call science in the 17th century and finally put to bed by Pasteur.
Anyhow, your allegations regarding Aristotelian/Scholastic philosophy are just plain wrong... a perfect example of malicious misrepresentation designed to deceive the ignorant and the naïve.
But, hey! it's you lot who are peddling spontaneous generation. Pasteur did not disturb the Scholastic assessment of what life is or where it comes from in the slightest. The "clever" Materialists of the day were more than somewhat pissed off, though. And we still have the likes of you trying to convince the naïve that life just pops out of mud or hydrothermal vents, or something, or anything.
Not playing tennis. Well, at least you didn't use the analogy of not collecting stamps. Atheism may not be a religion as we understand the term 'religion', but you have to admit that there are usually many other beliefs that atheists subscribe to for which they have neither reason nor evidence, just faith. For example, the vast majority of atheists would probably also agree with the faith claim that material reality is all there is, even though, being confined to it as we are whilst alive, we cannot rule out the possibility of there being alternative 'supernatural' realities that we, due to our limitations, are simply not aware of. When asked about this, their usual response to the objection is that 'there is simply no evidence for these realities', but that doesn't stop them from accepting without question the 'Multiverse' idea when it is put forward by atheistic cosmologists in order to get around the thorny issue of the universe's beginning and the fine-tuning problem. Apparently it's okay to believe in unseen (and completely undetectable and unfalsifiable) physical realities that seem to lessen the need for God, but not spiritual ones.
I'm sure it's not the first time you hear is, but it bears repeating: That which can be asserted without evidence can be dimissed without evidence.
Quoting Christopher Hitchens without attribution, now are we? What about that assertion itself; you know, that 'claims that are asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence'? Do you have any evidence to back up that assertion? No, you don't, so going by your practice I should just dismiss it, and I will.
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