People trying to convert you...

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See, besides everything else this guy spewed, this is the kind of stuff that makes me sick. The ARROGENCE! They are right, and everyone else is wrong so they need to be "saved". I swear, if this is what heaven is like I would gladly choose hell instead. Better to reign in hell than to suffer in heaven. Then again, my spiritual path has nothing to do with that stuff, but still you know what I mean.
Need I bring up again how christianity got so popular and the horrible things they did to achieve such a status? See, this kind of garbage just fuels my anger, and makes me want to get offensive.

The hilarious part is that there's nothing even mildly supporting the actual existence of Jesus Christ as a historical figure at all, let alone being God. All Christians have is subjective evidence which at the end of the day is words and claims, all of which are impossible to be verified. Yet they so ignorantly spread the virus that is faith as if it's something to their health.

z0rp I love your signature
Fitting for this conversation eh?

You could say that.

hey...they have a book, even though humans have older books, and carvings-yet to chrstians those are all untrue
even if they are older and make more sense

Evaluate on the "make more sense" part. Do you mean how they worshipped the sun? Which in a sense made sense because the sun does provide heat and such, and life wouldn't survive without the sun, and many ancient cultures of course knew this.

yeah that's about right lol

nature worshiping faiths make the most sense

Don't. Try. To. Convert. Me.

We'll get along fine.

I've rarely had this happen though, it has to be said.

Perhaps, even though few concepts from sun worship has been incorporated in Christianity, such as Christmas and other things that could be debated among scholars.

To be honest, from my perspective, Christianity seems to make more sense than astrology, which it sounds too far fetched to grasp, considering what we have gained from astronomy so far, which in that case the concept of a deity such as the God sounds more sensible in comparison.

Astrology is a kind of mysticism, one of which is actually quite fascinating. "Mysticism" in general has a lot more complexity and intelligence than just saying: God did it.
And of course, we know what the moon and sun is on a scientific level, but exactly what is the definition of a "god"? Well I know what it is, but my point is that it's perfectly logical to still consider these things to be gods at least as a resemblances of them. They have extreme influence over us and provide for our planet and all life upon it, and therefore are very powerful. Their divine value is protrayed in this way. Also, it makes a lot more sense to consider Mother Earth as our physical creator rather than "God". We were born from the things that she is made of, she is the reason we are alive today, which technically is what makes us her children. Another thing being is that she does communicate with us in certain ways, at least in a way for those who can understand her mysterious language. All living things will figure it out, if they choose to. It's actually quite fascinating to learn!

Last edited by v0lume on 13 Jan 2009, 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well honestly I don't think any of it makes sense, however back in ancient times it could. We know now that the sun is not living, it is not a god or a deity that you see in the sky, it's a giant gas ball of fire. Similar to how back in ancient times "heaven" meant the sky purely. Now though in modern times, believers in heaven have to resort to saying it's in another dimension or outside of the universe to justify their belief, but when the belief itself was invented it meant the sky. We didn't know what was there at the time truly so it was far easier to justify the location of heaven than it is today. Interesting, eh?

I just think it was wrong that the old ways from which I originated was just trashed and replaced, and they still hold validity. Many old beliefs also did, as I explained before, believe that certain things only resembled the gods, and did not believe those things were the actual god itself. Sadly, much wisdom has been lost due to the oppressors however from what we know it does make sense, and no matter how much science is explored, nothing can change that (unlike christianity).

Edit: On my post before this one I mentioned that to just say "god did it" is extremely simpleminded, and doesn't actually describe anything. I just think thats a really important point for this conversation and I don't want it to get lost.

Obviously not true, since, if that were the case they would have no seminaries.

Other way around there... It's not a coincidence that characters in the Chronicles of Narnia do things that resemble events in the bible. The entire series, beginning to end, is a retelling of the King James version of the Christians' bible.

Jesus = Aslan
White Witch = Satan

Stone Table = the Cross
(with associated crucifixion and resurrection)

I believe the book the Voyage of the Dawn Treader is the retelling of Noah's Ark.

The book the Last Battle is the retelling of the book of Revelations.

All this stuff has been well known about the series for a long, long time. Most of C.S. Lewis work is thickly laden with Christian themes. I'm not sure how that could be used as evidence to persuade someone to be Christian, but it's out there so I guess they're gonna try and use it. If anything it would be like saying "you like Mr. T, don't you? Well Mr. T's Christian! An' he pity the fool who don't praise Jesus!" But I don't really consider famous people in a religion as a valid reason for subscribing to it. I like some of Tom Cruise's movies - I'm not joining up to Scientology.

Basically what he is saying is that generally they are very hypocritical.

Concerning the movies, when they first came out I thought they were great because I made no connection with them and the bible. Then all of a sudden all these people were making these connections with the bible and it made it hard to watch them anymore so.. It still seems very unlikely to me that those elements were added as an attempt to be "holy".
Interestingly, concerning Jesus I have found that many people (as I look at my past for example) believe that when he was crusified the Romans treated him more harshly than anyone else recieving that punnishment. When in fact hundreds upon hundreds of people were crusified back then, in this way: Whipped, with a device with hooks on the end of the tails for as many times as desired. Brutal mockery and abuse during all stages of the execution was extremely common. Then they were forced to carry the cross for a long distance to where they would finally be nailed to it and left to die. (THIS is the way it happened for everyone!) But still, people look at the situation like "he was treated worse and deserves more pitty". When this is untrue.

But you don't understand. We don't WANT to be saved from eternal damnation in hell, simply because we don't follow your beliefs. If we actually believed we would go to hell if we didn't convert, don't you think we would have converted to christianity? It seems most of my Christian friends are Christians out of fear, not faith.