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dionysian
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03 Jun 2011, 12:42 am

From The Life Of Reason (Gutenberg link).

George Santayana wrote:
The profound and pathetic ideas which inspired Christianity were attached in the beginning to ancient myths and soon crystallised into many new ones. The mythical manner pervades Christian philosophy; but myth succeeds in expressing ideal life only by misrepresenting its history and conditions. This method was indeed not original with the Fathers; they borrowed it from Plato, who appealed to parables himself in an open and harmless fashion, yet with disastrous consequences to his school. Nor was he the first; for the instinct to regard poetic fictions as revelations of supernatural facts is as old as the soul's primitive incapacity to distinguish dreams from waking perceptions, sign from thing signified, and inner emotions from external powers. Such confusions, though in a way they obey moral forces, make a rational estimate of things impossible. To misrepresent the conditions and consequences of action is no merely speculative error; it involves a false emphasis in character and an artificial balance and co-ordination among human pursuits. When ideals are hypostasised into powers alleged to provide for their own expression, the Life of Reason cannot be conceived; in theory its field of operation is pre-empted and its function gone, while in practice its inner impulses are turned awry by artificial stimulation and repression.


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leejosepho
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03 Jun 2011, 6:52 am

From the end of Chapter I:

Quote:
On the whole, however, religion should not be conceived as having taken the place of anything better, but rather as having come to relieve situations which, but for its presence, would have been infinitely worse. In the thick of active life, or in the monotony of practical slavery, there is more need to stimulate fancy than to control it. Natural instinct is not much disturbed in the human brain by what may happen in that thin superstratum of ideas which commonly overlays it. We must not blame religion for preventing the development of a moral and natural science which at any rate would seldom have appeared; we must rather thank it for the sensibility, the reverence, the speculative insight which it has introduced into the world.

We may therefore proceed to analyse the significance and the function which religion has had at its different stages, and, without disguising or in the least condoning its confusion with literal truth, we may allow ourselves to enter as sympathetically as possible into its various conceptions and emotions. They have made up the inner life of many sages, and of all those who without great genius or learning have lived steadfastly in the spirit. The feeling of reverence should itself be treated with reverence, although not at a sacrifice of truth, with which alone, in the end, reverence is compatible. Nor have we any reason to be intolerant of the partialities and contradictions which religions display. Were we dealing with a science, such contradictions would have to be instantly solved and removed; but when we are concerned with the poetic interpretation of experience, contradiction means only variety, and variety means spontaneity, wealth of resource, and a nearer approach to total adequacy.

If we hope to gain any understanding of these matters we must begin by taking them out of that heated and fanatical atmosphere in which the Hebrew tradition has enveloped them. The Jews had no philosophy, and when their national traditions came to be theoretically explicated and justified, they were made to issue in a puerile scholasticism and a rabid intolerance. The question of monotheism, for instance, was a terrible question to the Jews. Idolatry did not consist in worshipping a god who, not being ideal, might be unworthy of worship, but rather in recognising other gods than the one worshipped in Jerusalem. To the Greeks, on the contrary, whose philosophy was enlightened and ingenuous, monotheism and polytheism seemed perfectly innocent and compatible. To say God or the gods was only to use different expressions for the same influence, now viewed in its abstract unity and correlation with all existence, now viewed in its various manifestations in moral life, in nature, or in history. So that what in Plato, Aristotle, and the Stoics meets us at every step—the combination of monotheism with polytheism—is no contradiction, but merely an intelligent variation of phrase to indicate various aspects or functions in physical and moral things. When religion appears to us in this light its contradictions and controversies lose all their bitterness. Each doctrine will simply represent the moral plane on which they live who have devised or adopted it. Religions will thus be better or worse, never true or false. We shall be able to lend ourselves to each in turn, and seek to draw from it the secret of its inspiration.

(italic added)


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ruveyn
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03 Jun 2011, 7:04 am

leejosepho wrote:
From the end of Chapter I:

Quote:
On the whole, however, religion should not be conceived as having taken the place of anything better, but rather as having come to relieve situations which, but for its presence, would have been infinitely worse. In the thick of active life, or in the monotony of practical slavery, there is more need to stimulate fancy than to control it. Natural instinct is not much disturbed in the human brain by what may happen in that thin superstratum of ideas which commonly overlays it. We must not blame religion for preventing the development of a moral and natural science which at any rate would seldom have appeared; we must rather thank it for the sensibility, the reverence, the speculative insight which it has introduced into the world.

We may therefore proceed to analyse the significance and the function which religion has had at its different stages, and, without disguising or in the least condoning its confusion with literal truth, we may allow ourselves to enter as sympathetically as possible into its various conceptions and emotions. They have made up the inner life of many sages, and of all those who without great genius or learning have lived steadfastly in the spirit. The feeling of reverence should itself be treated with reverence, although not at a sacrifice of truth, with which alone, in the end, reverence is compatible. Nor have we any reason to be intolerant of the partialities and contradictions which religions display. Were we dealing with a science, such contradictions would have to be instantly solved and removed; but when we are concerned with the poetic interpretation of experience, contradiction means only variety, and variety means spontaneity, wealth of resource, and a nearer approach to total adequacy.

If we hope to gain any understanding of these matters we must begin by taking them out of that heated and fanatical atmosphere in which the Hebrew tradition has enveloped them. The Jews had no philosophy, and when their national traditions came to be theoretically explicated and justified, they were made to issue in a puerile scholasticism and a rabid intolerance. The question of monotheism, for instance, was a terrible question to the Jews. Idolatry did not consist in worshipping a god who, not being ideal, might be unworthy of worship, but rather in recognising other gods than the one worshipped in Jerusalem. To the Greeks, on the contrary, whose philosophy was enlightened and ingenuous, monotheism and polytheism seemed perfectly innocent and compatible. To say God or the gods was only to use different expressions for the same influence, now viewed in its abstract unity and correlation with all existence, now viewed in its various manifestations in moral life, in nature, or in history. So that what in Plato, Aristotle, and the Stoics meets us at every step—the combination of monotheism with polytheism—is no contradiction, but merely an intelligent variation of phrase to indicate various aspects or functions in physical and moral things. When religion appears to us in this light its contradictions and controversies lose all their bitterness. Each doctrine will simply represent the moral plane on which they live who have devised or adopted it. Religions will thus be better or worse, never true or false. We shall be able to lend ourselves to each in turn, and seek to draw from it the secret of its inspiration.

(italic added)


In short, religions cannot be falsified by empirical means. Which means they are nonsense on stilts. They are just chrystalized beliefs. What makes one non-testable belief "better" than another? Yet wars are fought over just that question. People die and property is destroyed over just that question. If I believed in the Devil, I would say religion is the work of the Devil.

ruveyn



leejosepho
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03 Jun 2011, 7:51 am

ruveyn wrote:
In short, religions cannot be falsified by empirical means. Which means they are nonsense on stilts. They are just chrystalized beliefs. What makes one non-testable belief "better" than another? Yet wars are fought over just that question. People die and property is destroyed over just that question.

As best I can tell, all of that is a matter outside at least the immediate concern of the author.

ruveyn wrote:
If I believed in the Devil, I would say religion is the work of the Devil.

Same again, and yet I would nevertheless agree.

In relation to the typical discussion here in PPR as well as your own immediate point, the author suggests ...

Quote:
We must not blame religion for preventing the development of a moral and natural science which at any rate would seldom have appeared; we must rather thank it for the sensibility, the reverence, the speculative insight which it has introduced into the world.


And of course, I think his contextual use and yours of the term/word "religion" are not the same.


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dionysian
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03 Jun 2011, 8:19 am

Nice hijack. :x


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leejosepho
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03 Jun 2011, 8:24 am

dionysian wrote:
Nice hijack. :x

Someone messed up an agenda of some kind?!


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dionysian
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03 Jun 2011, 8:27 am

leejosepho wrote:
dionysian wrote:
Nice hijack. :x

Someone messed up an agenda of some kind?!

If it can be said to be an agenda to have a thread relevant to the OP...


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leejosepho
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03 Jun 2011, 8:32 am

dionysian wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
dionysian wrote:
Nice hijack. :x

Someone messed up an agenda of some kind?!

If it can be said to be an agenda to have a thread relevant to the OP...

I had assumed your intended message and I had perceived a mis-use of quoted material ...

Do you believe I was wrong on either or both counts?


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dionysian
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03 Jun 2011, 8:41 am

leejosepho wrote:
Do you believe I was wrong on either or both counts?

On both.


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leejosepho
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03 Jun 2011, 8:43 am

dionysian wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
Do you believe I was wrong on either or both counts?

On both.

Then, and if you wish, please offer a bit of insight or elaboration.


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dionysian
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03 Jun 2011, 9:02 am

leejosepho wrote:
Then, and if you wish, please offer a bit of insight or elaboration.

Elaborate on what? Santayana is stunningly profound.


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ruveyn
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03 Jun 2011, 9:24 am

leejosepho wrote:

ruveyn wrote:
If I believed in the Devil, I would say religion is the work of the Devil.

Same again, and yet I would nevertheless agree.

In relation to the typical discussion here in PPR as well as your own immediate point, the author suggests ...

Quote:
We must not blame religion for preventing the development of a moral and natural science which at any rate would seldom have appeared; we must rather thank it for the sensibility, the reverence, the speculative insight which it has introduced into the world.


.


As to your quote. I would say tell that to Galileo who was sentenced to house arrest for life because the Church exercised its religious authority.

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03 Jun 2011, 9:30 am

Worse, we only know about Galileo because he was former friends with the pope and because he had a noun daughter and eventually gave up. Who knows what sort of less famous researchers and their inventions were wiped from history because their heresy was more local and just documented as "probable witch".


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leejosepho
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03 Jun 2011, 7:56 pm

ruveyn wrote:
As to your quote. I would say tell that to Galileo who was sentenced to house arrest for life because the Church exercised its religious authority.

Maybe they just wanted to be sure to be the first to hear about anything new?!


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