Why wages really are so low today

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http://www.salon.com/2013/12/30/the_mid ... low_today/

You really can't compare standards of living across that amount of time. I'll wager most of those graduates will have access to the sort of lifestyle that the readers of SF will have fantasised about back in the 60s. Or maybe the situation is far more dire than I thought, and America has been de-electrified, with the exception of a few walled communities...

But having a degree does not automatically entitle you to earn money. You have to have skills that someone is willing to pay you for.

Anyway, markets not capitalism, markets not states...

Wages are low because of "Supply & Demand". When there are two or more candidates for one job, the employer can offer the job to the person who will accept the lower wage. So what if that means the person has a lower standard of living? The employer makes more profit, and that's all that matters. If the employees don't like it, then they can look for another job ... while even more people apply for their old one.

Maybe that's it -- maybe the reason that wages don't increase is because people don't stay with one job long enough to increase its value. When a position is vacated, the employer can reset the pay to the minimum value and start all over again.

Want better pay? Don't quit!

A blatant "pro-union" story, but they ignore the key flaw.

1. Unions have become their own worst enemy.

Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely.
- Lord Acton

Unions, like any other political entity, tends to enjoy the taste of power too much once it is acquired. Why is the mob involved in so many labor unions....the political power it grants them. Indeed, many unions employ blatantly criminal tactics and utilize their political influence to remain untouched while their victims go without vindication or compensation for what was done to them.

When any entity becomes this way, it is time for it to be terminated. The American labor union movement has long since reached this phase, and many people, most of them WORKERS, no longer want to see them in the workplace. Much of the "benefits" of the labor unions are now done by government law and regulation. In many cases, the unions are to blame for needless workplace friction that motivates companies to move operations to "at will" states or even outside the US to no longer have to deal with the operational headaches created by unions. Think of this...to operate OUTSIDE the USA, most every player has to BRIBE people to get things done. It's CHEAPER to BRIBE officials in another country to get things done than to deal with a labor union. That says something.

The union should be advocating for positive change, but should always have the prosperity of the shop, and its owner(s), first and foremost. Instead, they typically make unreasonable demands (ignorant of economic realities) and utilize threats of violence and work stoppages to get their way. Even Boeing refused to expand operations in Washington state to build the production line for the new Dreamliner in North Carolina because the union would not agree to a moratorium to not strike or do a work stoppage for X years on the new line in Washington state. The new production line was an investment of BILLIONS and would hire thousands of new workers, but the union would give no assurance of cooperating with Boeing in exchange for getting the work in Washington state. Boeing's problem is that the union strikes and uses work stoppages for many trivial issues...costing the company hundreds of thousands of dollars in lost productivity at a clip.

2. The politicos have made it IMPOSSIBLE to pay union-scale wages and be competitive in the marketplace.

Most every product you have (including McDonalds) involves the global economy. You want your burger flipper paid $15/hour? How about the truck driver who brings the goods from the farm to the marketplace where McDonalds gets its lettuce, tomato, etc.? How about the farm hand who labors in the HOT SUN to pick those items? How about the FARMER who could lose his farm if he doesn't get a good crop unaffected by too much/too little water, blight, insects, etc.?

By the time you ensure everyone gets a "living wage," there isn't anything to put on that "Dollar Value Menu" except water.

Why? The law of supply and demand. People pay what something is worth to them, not more.

The vast majority of the world operates in a 3rd world economy, and getting ANY business from the 2nd or 1st world nations can spell the difference between in-the-dust poverty or being a wealthy big wheel in their community. Most of these nations (other than political bribes) don't have the nightmare of government regulation and oversight that western nations have. Places like China deliberately let people cut corners to seize a larger global market share. The opposition to signing on to Kyoto was not because people hate the environment...it was that major industrial polluters like China were given a free pass...making it impossible to compete in the marketplace.

When Mr. A has to spend $1,000 per item to comply with laws and regulations and wage mandates and Mr. B does not, who do you think can offer an equal or superior product at a lower price? Obviously, it's Mr. B. We used to have import tariffs to balance the market (taxing goods that could undersell domestic production due to non-compliance with domestic rules), but the WTO took that out of the equation.

***

This is why labor unions are going bust.

They can't promise anything that ultimately won't destroy your job in a few years.

Demanding higher than normal market wages and benefits when non-union competitors don't have that problem makes an unequal basis to compete in the marketplace.

Making all US shops union shops would create a nightmare in unregulated political power. You would have a vast criminal enterprise as organized crime took over the unions to have legitimate political power.

And, finally, you'd still have to compete with cheaper overseas goods. Unless you can compel the consumer to buy your goods, you won't prevail when someone can sell the same thing cheaper than you can.

lol no.

This is demonstrably untrue for every single food service/retail/hospitality job ever. It's also demonstrably true that the lowest paid workers in America were paid far more than the workers of today when you account for inflation.

The reason why this is happening is because of Neo-Liberal Capitalism and Globalism. We have to compete with slave laborers, prison labor, and sweatshops. We also have extremely powerful corporate entities with massive amounts of power over our government. They have an interest in making sure that the majority of their revenue goes straight into the pockets of the top executives and the politicians they're bribing. Therefore, the consumers and employees have to be screwed out of as much money as possible. It's not a sustainable system, but in the short-term it's going to make the richest people EXTREMELY rich.

lol no.

America constantly allows poisonous and hazardous materials to enter their ports from China and other countries, which have no regulation whatsoever. Just a few months ago, a fertilizer plant exploded in Texas and took out most of a town. It hadn't been inspected since the 80's. The vitamin/supplement market is basically completely unregulated, and drug manufacturers have recently caught flak for letting toxic fungus get injected into people's spinal cords.

But if you really hate regulation that much, feel free to check out China. If you can find it through the smog.

...and fight in your workplace for better pay and conditions, from the grassroots.

... only if you are incapable of acquiring new skills or of improving on the skills you already have.

If a semi-literate janitor who never went to college or uni complains about the working conditions, no one is likely to pay him any attention; but if an engineer or programmer with an MSEE makes the same complaint, people will act on it. This is because an education and longevity are more valuable than a loud voice and a bad attitude will ever be, and value translate directly into respect.

So, the more valuable the employee, and the longer that employee has been with the company, the more influence he or she has on company policy and wages -- that's just the way it is.

The strength of their union shouldn't be downplayed as an important factor either.

We have trade unionism and the weapon that is the strike to thank for the 8 hour day and the 5 day week.

There is a reason why Indian or Thai slave shop workers are worked around the clock for pennies, while in the west we are guaranteed a weekend off and at least a sustinenance wage. Its because in those countries, they havent got a tradition of worker organisation and fighting for better terms. Western companies dont offer better conditions because they are 'nicer' people. They do it because of worker solidarity and protective legislation won by progressive movements. Do you honestly think for a moment if US or European companies could impose the same conditions in the USA or Europe (and get away with it) that they do in South East Asia they wouldn't do it in a heartbeat? Of course they would. They would do it with relish.

Even compare the United States to Europe, where in the USA low skilled workers are protected by no kind of minimum wage laws. I would even go as far as to argue that in the USA there is a correlation between the deteriorating standard of average living and the rise of libertarian shitbags like the tea party.

Moreover the ability of American workers to improve their skills are confounded by unreasonable high barriers to access such as extortionate University fees, a rising cost of living, stagnating or even deteriorating wages and a lack of state subsidies that force vulnerable people into attrition scenarios. I simply don't agree with your cynicism. The argument that they dont improve themselves far from being an indictment of their ability or work ethic is a self fulfilling prophecy,

Are you making a point for me? Try and run a business in the USA. It's a nightmare of regulation. Many just ignore most of them, but then you worry about being nailed. Lots of people blatantly ignore them, but they often make big money contributions to certain groups to ensure they don't get hassled.

In spite of all of this, China is much, much, much worse for lack of regulation.

And it's effing sad, too.

Here's my view, if so many jobs can be replaced by automation, then perhaps we need to reorganize our wage system in a way that everyone can cash in on the production produced by the automation, instead of leaving a large population of permanently unemployed persons who cannot take advantage of that automation along with a few elite who benefit tremendously. In such a case, I would recommend a rapid raise of the minimum wage and a major reduction in the workweek.

Any motion to motivate production on a massive scale needs to be coupled with a massive move to educate the workforce on an equivalent scale so that they have a chance of obtaining employment within a skilled paradigm. Unfortunately the intracacies of economics within capitalism prevent either sustainability or the will for this to happen. Right now the market dictates the preservation of a large pool of underpaid, underskilled workers. Its that very pool of misery and adversity that is the lifeblood of the current system.

It is capitalism that is the problem in sustaining menial labour. Automation will inevitably cause a massive surge in production. When you have a price system in operation they (the capitalists, taylorists whatever you want to call them) need to keep production as close to consumption as possible because if they dont availability or abundancy undermines the market value of goods. Hence the wholesale disposal or destruction of excess unsold goods and foodstuffs rather than dispersing it among hungry and needy people. In short we need resource based economics.

www.eoslife.eu/vision

Strangely, the planets must be in alignment or something because I agree completely with this statement. Unions and regulation build and sustain the middle class, it does not exist naturally. It is a complex balancing act between interests but the absolute free market first year economics that many chaps espouse is quite ridiculous when you start breaking things down industry by industry and country by country.

Just so long as someone else will do the work to get there, eh? If you want the benefits of automation to spread throughout society, spread the benefits of automation throughout society. Don't just sit back and demand that the men with guns take money off the elites and give it to you so you can buy more from the elites, or take over the elites factories and hand out free bread (why not throw in some circuses whilst you're at it?). Work towards a situation where it doesn't make any sense to have big factories, because no-one needs what they produce. If the bread company isn't paying high enough wages, then help the workers make bread themselves and sell it without needing to rely upon the bread company, rather than demanding that the state force the bread company to pay higher wages.

We need markets, not capitalism. We need markets, not the state. A free market *is* a free humanity, by definition.

"But if there’s one thing I’ve learned in life, it’s that the important things are accomplished not by those best suited to do them, or by those who ought to be responsible for doing them, but by whoever actually shows up." - Eliezer Yudkowsky. You want "resource based economics"? Well go support those who are actually trying to grow the open source ecology.

Automation can not replace creativity -- at least, not in the forseeable future -- and by 'creativity', I mean the intuitive leaps of understanding that lead to new innovations and inventions, not merely copying what someone else has already done.

Production is only one part of the process. There is also invention, distribution, innovation, service, maintenance, procurement, accounting ... and many other aspects of running a business that can not be performed by automation, such as quality control. Sure, you could invent a robot that would measure a loaf of bread for color, consistency, content, temperature and humidity, but how would the bread taste?

This whole concept of "Share the Wealth" is predicated on the fact that people are not created equal, and that they want to be treated as equals by even the most wealthy and worthy among us. Sorry, kids, but life doesn't work that way. If you want to be treated as an equal, then you must become an equal to those whom you want the equal treatment from -- if you want to be treated like a king, you must first be a king; but if all you can manage is to be a chav living on the dole in a council house, then you will be treated as a chav living on the dole in a council house.

Yes, it's just that simple. Work on improving yourselves to be more valuable to the system, instead of crying about how 'unfair' life is and tearing down the system to such a dysfunctional level that it no longer works for anyone.

Sssshhhhh......

You're making too much sense.