Is hell a good representation of Romans 12:21?

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Is hell a good representation of Romans 12:21?

God cannot create good people who will not sin. A slight glitch in God’s creative technique that believers attribute to his giving us free will. Out our free will does not include our ability to choose not to sin. This is obvious as we are told that we are all born sinners and that all of us are condemned because of this glitch. If even one of us could not sin, we would all know about it.

While reading, I came across this verse. Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Hell is not usually considered a good thing.

Further, we are told that we are to emulate God in all ways. Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

If this is so, should we, in seeking to be as perfect as God, ignore Romans 12:21 and do as God does and return evil for evil?

If God does not follow his own good advice, does that mean that we do not need to either?

Should we be following Romans 12:21 and ignoring Matthew 5:48 or following Matthew 5:48 and ignoring Romans 12:21. Clearly we cannot follow both as they are contradicting each other.

Should God return good for evil or should he return evil for evil?

Regards
DL

Perhaps we should just take responsibility for our lives.

Please define the word 'sin' in your original post.

Most religious people would define it as not obeying a command of God. But as a non-religious person, or possible a deist, I would lean towards a definition of sinning is when you hurt someone else either physically or mentally. So I wouldn't consider things like homosexuality, masturbation, getting drunk, etc.. to be sins. Then in which case, yes I am kind of living a sin free life. I'm not killing anyone, raping anyone, stealing, assaulting anyone, discriminating against anyone, etc.. So by ones definition of sin, one may be leading a sin free life.

Did I read somewhere according to Gnostics that miracles are evil? I would want a definition of miracle before offering further comment on that. Do they mean the kind of miracles Jesus did? It seems like a wholesale attack on Christinity to me.

Unfortunately, sin is not a choice of free will. Free will is what brought the first humans to sin. And sin is imperfection according to the bible. Sin's effects are so great that they effect every human from then on. So our free will, regardless if we want to or not, cannot affect our ability to sin, but can affect our ability to serve god.

Choice is what everyone struggles with. The deduction to make a choice of right and wrong is more complicated than people realize. Adam and Eve, created perfect without sin, could still make wrong choices. Angels could even make wrong choices. Although Free will and choice are not literally the same, they do tie into one another. Free will is like saying independent thought, that is, to think without the need of someone to think for you. This is what is meant by free will, the ability to choose for yourself. Obviously god knew that there would be some humans and angels who would fall for this.

But the issue is not free will or choice. I say those cause with my previous paragraphs in mind, with an open mind, I'll relate why Romans 12:21 does not conflict with Matthew 5:48.

Firstly, god never created a literal hell {Hades in Greek, She'ol in Hebrew}. The place of torment mentioned in Revelations is symbolic, along with the rest of Revelations. The bible does not teach hell is a place evil people go. In fact the bible says that there is a resurrection of both good and bad people [Acts 15:24].

So what about Romans 12:21 and Matthew 5:48? First consider the whole scripture paragraph, rather than a single scripture. Matthew 5:44-48: "However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Romans 12:17-21: "Return evil for evil to no one. Take into consideration what is fine from the viewpoint of all men. If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men. Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay,’ says {God}.” But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals on his head.” Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good."

Both scriptures literally mean the same thing. Treat your enemy with kindness. Matthew and Romans also say to leave certain matters in god's hands, and that he alone will deal with the true evils of our world.

But to further demonstrate that god does not torment people forever, we can look at other scriptures. Ezekiel 18:4 clearly says that souls die. Especially if they sin.
Genesis 3:19 says that our bodies return to dust.
John 11:11-13, Jesus himself likened death to sleep. He nor Lazarus spoke about life in another world. Jesus did not say he was elsewhere or being tormented in a place. There was no mention of his soul returning to his body either. The same is said to Matthew 9:24.

So does god return evil to evil? The answer is an absolute no. It is not what the bible teaches.

Notice I said not total universalism. While I agree with universalism, not everything about it matches what a Christian should believe. In other words you are right, we do influence each other.

As for reincarnation, that I do not believe in. The resurrection of judgment is metaphorical while the resurrection of life is literal. God does not resurrect someone to simply kill them again, that would be pointless. Those who deserves the second chance to serve him completely.

Christians believe that the old mosaic law governs most of todays Christianity. While not everyone does, it was the jews who god had promised the messiah would raise out of and indeed he did. It was the jews who started it all. I will not try again when I have already succeeded.

So let me get this straight, you want god to make an evil person do good? Wouldn't that take his choice and freedom away? No, there is a reason we can choose good and evil. It becomes robotic if we are forced to serve god? God would rather leave a wicked person dead, than torment him.

As for god cutting off the wickedness, we are not to judge him. If he decides destruction to the wicked, since he created us, we should not judge that. In any case, it is for the greater good. You would not just let someone beat you down, you would defend yourself. That is what god is doing, defending his creation.

{when you mimicked my post, "Don't you agree" it showed me you just like typing words to type words. I do not believe you are sincere and genuine in this argument anymore and are a troll, since you love to antagonize. You claim spirituality yet you yourself speak abusively about god. Make up your mind, are you, or arnt you spiritual?}