Iran seizes British sailors, may put them on trial

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jimservo
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01 Apr 2007, 11:22 am

Janicka wrote:
Don't think that the Bush family is disappointed at how things are turning out. They made their $ off oil.


So by definition any person who is involved in the oil industry in any way is willing to sacrifice lives to make a profit? Where is the proof that oil men run the government? What is this based on?

JCC wrote:
Pro-Pretorius, Don't misunderstand. You're not the bad guys here, we are. We have some real slez-buckets running things over here. If you still don't belive me, pickup a copy of Fahrenheit 9/11, also JFK, and then Nixon. You'll see for yourself how we continuly re-elect these people who don't have our best intrest at heart. J.C.


Fahrenheit 9/11? Do you realize the distortions, the lies that went into that? JFK, and Nixon weren't accurate at all! They were ficticious movies Oliver Stone has the reputation as a conspiracy mogul for reason.

Here is a link to pointing out errors in JFK (link).



Inventor
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01 Apr 2007, 1:22 pm

JimServo,

In the White House.

He was a drunk and coke head with a name.

The Astros deal made him rich, he bought a ranch and dried out.

Then he was elected Governor of Texas,

Then President of the United States in the highest spending election ever,

not bad for a guy who never had a job.

He got re-elected the only way he could,

inventing a terror threat and starting a war.

Ben Lauden is Saudi, his actions caused them to make Trillions,

he is still loose, 9/11 were Saudis, see a pattern?

Halliburton is jumping ship, no questions will be answered.

The love of money is the root of all evil.

Iraq does not have much oil, Saddam was weak,

it took several days to knock out his army,

this is not the way we dealt with Germany and Japan,

we lost a lot of good men, but the occupiers came with food, medicine,

and rebuilt the economy using locals, we won the Peace.

It is what America does in victory.

It was a hard lesson learned from World War I,

a hard peace lead to a world economic Depression,

that lead to a much larger war.

In a choice between the powers that be, and our troops in the field,

I chose the Constitution, and if the Marines say, six months then home,

if people are having their enlistments extended,

if troops are being kept beyond their time to come home,

if the Reserves and the National Guard are being put on the front lines,

if those who have served are being called back years later,

I expect what I am hearing, not a word of complaint, just doing their job.

We the People are the ones who should complain, they are defending our right to do so.

A well rested, well trained, capable military, is the greatest deterrent to war.



jimservo
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01 Apr 2007, 2:58 pm

The EU doesn't seem to want sanctions with Iran:

Quote:
"While we are in complete solidarity with Britain, we have to do everything to build in the necessary brakes so that things don't explode," Luxembourg Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn told Deutschlandfunk radio. "We have to be careful that we don't go on outbidding each other with sanctions on Iran and talk of freezing relations."


(source)

Of course, sanctions would mean less cash for European businesses, both private and state owned. The United States does not trade with Iran, and has maintained sanctions since 1979.

Inventor wrote:
In the White House.

He was a drunk and coke head with a name.


What is this hatred of George W. Bush?

There is no evidence that George W. Bush has used cocaine. He admitted he was a heavy drinker, but so what? Barack Obama has admitted using cocaine, should be be disqualified from running for President.

Yes, he "had a name" but so did John Quincy Adams, Frederick Dent Grant, Robert Todd Lincoln, Franklin Roosevelt, the Tafts, the Kennedy's, and Al Gore.

Inventor wrote:
The Astros deal made him rich, he bought a ranch and dried out.


He became a minority partner of the Texas Rangers, and yes, he became somewhat (although not hugely, he was much less rich then his 2004 opponent, or his own Vice President) rich. It's not unusual for President's to be fairly descent personal money managers.

Inventor wrote:
Then he was elected Governor of Texas,

Then President of the United States in the highest spending election ever
,

This isn't surprising because of inflation.

Inventor wrote:
not bad for a guy who never had a job.


Please. George Bush may have been a fairly unsuccessfully businessman (before the Texas Rangers) but he did have jobs. It is notable that these jobs where not handed to him by his father.

Inventor wrote:
He got re-elected the only way he could,

inventing a terror threat and starting a war.


This doesn't make any sense. The economy was sinking when he came into office, and 9/11 caused further damaged. Now the war in Afghanistan was popular enough, and the War in Iraq was initially politically popular due to the initial success of the invasion. However, since then the war's popularity has plummeted as the Iraqi insurgency has arisen. Now, logically, considering the improving state of the economy over 2002-04, it didn't make a lot of sense to risk an unpopular war (especially one that Bush is alleged to have made up/mislead in re: evidence to) when he could have sailed into a second term under a strong economy.

Inventor wrote:
Ben Lauden is Saudi, his actions caused them to make Trillions,

he is still loose, 9/11 were Saudis, see a pattern?


No, not at all. How did 9/11 cause "the Saudis" to "make trillions?" Are you referring to the royal family? Osama has been calling for their overthrow for years now on the grounds they are not legitimately Islamist.

Incidentally, how would the opening of Iraqi oil to the United States help Saudi Arabia, whose economy is primarily driven by their oil supply? Furthermore, as the Saudis have publicly stated, they are not to keen on the liberalization of the Middle East because it risks stability and their rule.

Inventor wrote:
Halliburton is jumping ship, no questions will be answered.


Is Halliburton some kind of country? As a corporation won't they do whatever they can make profits? Also, I doubt the Democratic-leadership will let questionable actions by Halliburton go unchallenged. It would be politically imprudent to do otherwise.

Inventor wrote:
The love of money is the root of all evil.


Tell that to Adolf Hitler, V.I. Lenin, Iosef Stalin, Mao-Tse Tung, and Pol Pot.

Inventor wrote:
Iraq does not have much oil, Saddam was weak


Quote:
Iraq Oil Reserves and Production History. With 115 billion barrels of proven
crude oil reserves, Iraq has the world’s second-largest endowment of oil, amounting to
11% of the global total. Only 17 of 80 oil fields have been developed; the most
significant are Kirkuk in the north and Rumaila in the south. There has been virtually no
exploration for many years, suggesting that Iraq may have much more oil than currently
estimated. Iraq also has significant proven natural gas reserves; virtually all are
undeveloped. As a point of reference, Saudi Arabia, at 260 billion barrels of proven oil
reserves, has the largest reserve base and can produce as much as 10.5 million barrels per
day (mbd).


(source)

Saddam may have been weak enough that he could not stand up against a U.S.-led invasion force, but he was strong enough that no one in Iraq, including in the leadership moved against him. In addition, Iraq's neighbor's, and the rest of the world did not consider removing him before the invasion for his material breaches of the ceasefire agreement or some other reason. Had he been very weak, perhaps that would have occurred.

Inventor wrote:
it took several days to knock out his army,

this is not the way we dealt with Germany and Japan


The war was never presented as the Second World War, which is an extreme example that featured mass bombings of civilian population centers. Indeed, during the Iraqi campaign (like the earlier Afghan one) there was frequent reports that the coalition was on the verge of disaster.

Inventor wrote:
we lost a lot of good men, but the occupiers came with food, medicine,

and rebuilt the economy using locals, we won the Peace.

It is what America does in victory.


Interestingly, the United States is doing the exact same thing today. [url=http://www.mudvillegazette.com/Here is a link to a blog that links to other military blogs[/url].

Inventor wrote:
It was a hard lesson learned from World War I,

a hard peace lead to a world economic Depression,

that lead to a much larger war.


This is a larger discussion but I don't really agree although you still may be right about the Versailles Treaty. It was flawed economic policy in the United States that created that worldwide depression. Herbert Hoover, ironically, helped lift many of the harsher economic portions of the treaty. However, if French had stopped Hitler's advance into the Rhineland he very well may have been forced from power and he future terrors prevented.

Inventor wrote:
In a choice between the powers that be, and our troops in the field,

I chose the Constitution, and if the Marines say, six months then home,

if people are having their enlistments extended,

if troops are being kept beyond their time to come home,

if the Reserves and the National Guard are being put on the front lines,

if those who have served are being called back years later,

I expect what I am hearing, not a word of complaint, just doing their job.


The Bush administration errored in drastically increasing the size of the army. It is disappointing that the same Democrats that urged for troop increases before have suddenly reversed coursed when the incumbent administration calls identical action.

Inventor wrote:
We the People are the ones who should complain, they are defending our right to do so.

A well rested, well trained, capable military, is the greatest deterrent to war.


We agree.



Kahless
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01 Apr 2007, 8:46 pm

Well I'm very glad we will renew our nuclear weapons. If Iran as do so touch any of our hostages, Britannia should reclaim Iran in our Empire.



Ticker
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02 Apr 2007, 2:14 am

Someone mentioned gas prices going up because of the war conflicts. Just wanted to point out every summer around this time gasoline starts going up and keeps going until the week after Labor Day weekend here in the States. Every summer they use some different excuse. But it all comes down to its a rigged market and they will screw over the consumer making up any lie they can. Gas goes up first when Spring Break hits and college students all want to travel. Then end of May it skyrockets because kids get out of school for the summer thus families will go on vacation. The weather warms up so people go camping, fishing, sight seeing, etc so since the demand will always be there the industry raises the price because they KNOW that people will pay the higher prices regardless versus staying homebound all summer.

I really do hope the Brits get their men back without them being tortured or injured too bad. In this day and age its best everyone stay on their own country's turf. This whole world seems insane. It is upsetting to see so much death and destruction among peoples. I wish we could all just get along.