Trump finally reveals his Anti-Semitism.
24 Dec 2021, 5:44 pm
ironpony wrote:
But that doesn't explain why Catholic people would be against all Jewish people, just because some Jewish people ratted out another Jew. Seems like there is more to it than that?
Oh that's simple, When Christ was appropriated by the gentiles they blamed the jews for crucifying him (even though it was the Romans).
ASPartOfMe
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24 Dec 2021, 8:59 pm
You are all missing why his remarks are considered offensive.
Having duel loyalty, or being disloyal is and old and common anti Jewish accusation.
When Trump says to Jewish-Americans that Israel is “your country” he is playing right into those tropes. Jewish-Americans are not Israeli, they are Americans.
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24 Dec 2021, 9:20 pm
ASPartOfMe wrote:
You are all missing why his remarks are considered offensive.
Having duel loyalty, or being disloyal is and old and common anti Jewish accusation.
When Trump says to Jewish-Americans that Israel is “your country” he is playing right into those tropes. Jewish-Americans are not Israeli, they are Americans.
Having duel loyalty, or being disloyal is and old and common anti Jewish accusation.
When Trump says to Jewish-Americans that Israel is “your country” he is playing right into those tropes. Jewish-Americans are not Israeli, they are Americans.
I actually made that exact point on this thread, it's the last comment on page 2:
Quote:
This may surprise you, but the original Europeans who supported Israel were actually very anti-Semitic and the whole point of the creation of the state of Israel was for the Europeans to deport their Jewish people away from them to a Jewish homeland. That is very anti-Semitic and plays into the trope of Jewish dual loyalty and that Jews arent able to integrate into any land they live in
24 Dec 2021, 9:24 pm
ASPartOfMe wrote:
You are all missing why his remarks are considered offensive.
Having duel loyalty, or being disloyal is and old and common anti Jewish accusation.
When Trump says to Jewish-Americans that Israel is “your country” he is playing right into those tropes. Jewish-Americans are not Israeli, they are Americans.
Having duel loyalty, or being disloyal is and old and common anti Jewish accusation.
When Trump says to Jewish-Americans that Israel is “your country” he is playing right into those tropes. Jewish-Americans are not Israeli, they are Americans.
you're right. Thats the crux of it.
Not only accusing them of a divided loyalty, but begging Jews to...keep it up...to help his pro Israel agenda (which isnt really pro Israel its pandering to his Gentile American Evangelical base and their End Times agenda).
24 Dec 2021, 9:30 pm
naturalplastic wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But that's just it though. I see what people are saying that it might come off as anti-semetic to tell Jewish people that they are not Jewish unless they are this or that, etc. However, Trump seems to support Israel, so he does have some passion there, so I wonder how anti-semetic can he be though, if he wants to support Israel.
It's like people label Mel Gibson as anti-semetic even though he used a lot of his money and time, to make and direct a movie about a famous Jewish person. Seems like a lot of money and time spend on a movie about A Jewish person and event, for someone who is supposedly anti-Semetic.
It's like people label Mel Gibson as anti-semetic even though he used a lot of his money and time, to make and direct a movie about a famous Jewish person. Seems like a lot of money and time spend on a movie about A Jewish person and event, for someone who is supposedly anti-Semetic.
Where you born yesterday? Do have ANY education at all?
We on this site cant teach you EVERY thing that your parents and the school system failed to teach you.
Read a few books.
The Catholic Church historically spent zillions of dollars on Cathedrals devoted to the worship of a guy who happened to be Jewish, but the Catholic Church also fostered persecution of the Jews for centuries. More than any other institution in history. Not saying they do that today. My point is Christians and Jews have historically been in conflict despite (or maybe because of)the fact that Christians worship a Jewish guy. How did you make it to adulthood without being aware of that?
Dear god are you rude
Ironpony is kindly and politely opening himself up to learning and you shame and mock him rather than celebrate his curiosity and willingness to learn
Who pissed in your coffee this morning? Why so rude to someone whose only crime is not knowing something and wanting to learn?
24 Dec 2021, 11:27 pm
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay I see. One thing I find curious in the US is that it seems that democrats are 'pro-Palestine', and Republicans seem to be 'pro-Israel'. Would this be correct, or is that a reach on my assumption?
Your question got me curious, so I looked it up. This is what I found:
58% of Americans are more sympathetic to Israelites than to Palestinians.
The breakdown by political ideology is as follows:
Liberal Democrat: 3%
Moderate Democrat: 28%
Moderate Republican: 52%
Conservative Republican: 81%
25 Dec 2021, 1:15 am
kraftiekortie wrote:
Jesus considered Himself a Jew….but Christians certainly don’t consider Him a Jew.
They believe He was the basis of a new religion which worships Him as the Son of God.
They believe He was the basis of a new religion which worships Him as the Son of God.
Well it's just that the Jewish people are considered to be a race, so I thought Jesus was a Jew in racial terms, rather than religious terms.
But I find Trump and some people who think Jesus is awesome people bad to be contradictory. That's like saying Malcolm X was a great black man, but every other black person is bad, because a few black people betrayed Malcolm X. It's contradictory and wouldn't make sense. That's how it seems to me when people view all Jews as bad, but still love Jesus as a Jew.
25 Dec 2021, 1:23 am
DmitriNicholaev wrote:
Palestine has semi autonomy but ultimately it isn't a true sovereign state since Israel still occupies it, has soldiers stationed within its lands, and ultimately the PLO that's supposed to represent the Palestinian people acts like a dictatorship and Israel's lapdog to keep the Palestinians further under Israel's control since the PLO isn't popular with most of the Palestinians, but they continue to work under Israel's interests. I'm not going to say everything is Israel's fault since reality is more complex than that, but I will say that Israel's military occupation and illegal settlements on Palestinian land prevents this conflict from being solved any time soon.
Part of the problem is that the state of Palestine doesn't govern a single contiguous territory, but rather a bunch of many small Palestinian-controlled areas (mostly small towns) within a larger Israeli-controlled area. So a Palestinian living in Palestinian town A would need to cross through Israeli-controlled territory to get to neighboring Palestinian town B. And such crossings (depending on the specific region) either are prohibited entirely or are required to go through humiliating military checkpoints.
Thus, many Palestinians feel that they are living in an "open-air prison."
There are even some Palestinian farm-owning families who can't legally travel between their homes and their farms, and who thus need to rely on foreigners to run their farms for them.
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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 25 Dec 2021, 1:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
25 Dec 2021, 1:28 am
ironpony wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Jesus considered Himself a Jew….but Christians certainly don’t consider Him a Jew.
They believe He was the basis of a new religion which worships Him as the Son of God.
They believe He was the basis of a new religion which worships Him as the Son of God.
Well it's just that the Jewish people are considered to be a race, so I thought Jesus was a Jew in racial terms, rather than religious terms.
But I find Trump and some people who think Jesus is awesome people bad to be contradictory. That's like saying Malcolm X was a great black man, but every other black person is bad, because a few black people betrayed Malcolm X. It's contradictory and wouldn't make sense. That's how it seems to me when people view all Jews as bad, but still love Jesus as a Jew.
Christian Anti-Semitism isn't the same as white nationalist anti-Semitism even if both heavily overlap.
Christian Anti-Semitism hates and reviles Jews because to them the Jews are terrible scum for rejecting the New Testament of Jesus, for turning in Jesus to the Romans, and for not believing in Jesus as the Messiah and Son of God that Christians believe he was prophesied to be from the time of Isiah.
white nationalism takes some of that Christian anti-semitism as a springboard to launch into weird pseudoscientific racial hierarchy BS that posits that Jews are somehow intrinsically evil to their genetics and hates them for that.
Both are wrong but seem to emanate from 2 similar but fundamentally different impetuses and currents
25 Dec 2021, 1:33 am
DmitriNicholaev wrote:
ironpony wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Jesus considered Himself a Jew….but Christians certainly don’t consider Him a Jew.
They believe He was the basis of a new religion which worships Him as the Son of God.
They believe He was the basis of a new religion which worships Him as the Son of God.
Well it's just that the Jewish people are considered to be a race, so I thought Jesus was a Jew in racial terms, rather than religious terms.
But I find Trump and some people who think Jesus is awesome people bad to be contradictory. That's like saying Malcolm X was a great black man, but every other black person is bad, because a few black people betrayed Malcolm X. It's contradictory and wouldn't make sense. That's how it seems to me when people view all Jews as bad, but still love Jesus as a Jew.
Christian Anti-Semitism isn't the same as white nationalist anti-Semitism even if both heavily overlap.
Christian Anti-Semitism hates and reviles Jews because to them the Jews are terrible scum for rejecting the New Testament of Jesus, for turning in Jesus to the Romans, and for not believing in Jesus as the Messiah and Son of God that Christians believe he was prophesied to be from the time of Isiah.
white nationalism takes some of that Christian anti-semitism as a springboard to launch into weird pseudoscientific racial hierarchy BS that posits that Jews are somehow intrinsically evil to their genetics and hates them for that.
Both are wrong but seem to emanate from 2 similar but fundamentally different impetuses and currents
Oh okay, but how come Christians don't hate Catholics then as well, the same way? Aren't Catholics descendant of the Roman people very heavily, and those are the same people that also crucified Jesus? Therefore, shouldn't Christians lump Catholics into the same category as Jews?
25 Dec 2021, 1:36 am
ironpony wrote:
DmitriNicholaev wrote:
ironpony wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Jesus considered Himself a Jew….but Christians certainly don’t consider Him a Jew.
They believe He was the basis of a new religion which worships Him as the Son of God.
They believe He was the basis of a new religion which worships Him as the Son of God.
Well it's just that the Jewish people are considered to be a race, so I thought Jesus was a Jew in racial terms, rather than religious terms.
But I find Trump and some people who think Jesus is awesome people bad to be contradictory. That's like saying Malcolm X was a great black man, but every other black person is bad, because a few black people betrayed Malcolm X. It's contradictory and wouldn't make sense. That's how it seems to me when people view all Jews as bad, but still love Jesus as a Jew.
Christian Anti-Semitism isn't the same as white nationalist anti-Semitism even if both heavily overlap.
Christian Anti-Semitism hates and reviles Jews because to them the Jews are terrible scum for rejecting the New Testament of Jesus, for turning in Jesus to the Romans, and for not believing in Jesus as the Messiah and Son of God that Christians believe he was prophesied to be from the time of Isiah.
white nationalism takes some of that Christian anti-semitism as a springboard to launch into weird pseudoscientific racial hierarchy BS that posits that Jews are somehow intrinsically evil to their genetics and hates them for that.
Both are wrong but seem to emanate from 2 similar but fundamentally different impetuses and currents
Oh okay, but how come Christians don't hate Catholics then as well, the same way? Aren't Catholics descendant of the Roman people very heavily, and those are the same people that also crucified Jesus? Therefore, shouldn't Christians lump Catholics into the same category as Jews?
I mean by the time Christianity swept through Europe all forms of Paganism, which the Romans used to practice during the time of Jesus, was wiped out. The Catholic Church was ruthless and vicious in its bloody elimination and genocide of pagans throughout Europe so there wasn't much point in hating the Romans for killing Jesus when it was the Romans who ultimately converted to Christianity and forcefully spread it throughout their empire.
25 Dec 2021, 1:39 am
DmitriNicholaev wrote:
ironpony wrote:
DmitriNicholaev wrote:
ironpony wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Jesus considered Himself a Jew….but Christians certainly don’t consider Him a Jew.
They believe He was the basis of a new religion which worships Him as the Son of God.
They believe He was the basis of a new religion which worships Him as the Son of God.
Well it's just that the Jewish people are considered to be a race, so I thought Jesus was a Jew in racial terms, rather than religious terms.
But I find Trump and some people who think Jesus is awesome people bad to be contradictory. That's like saying Malcolm X was a great black man, but every other black person is bad, because a few black people betrayed Malcolm X. It's contradictory and wouldn't make sense. That's how it seems to me when people view all Jews as bad, but still love Jesus as a Jew.
Christian Anti-Semitism isn't the same as white nationalist anti-Semitism even if both heavily overlap.
Christian Anti-Semitism hates and reviles Jews because to them the Jews are terrible scum for rejecting the New Testament of Jesus, for turning in Jesus to the Romans, and for not believing in Jesus as the Messiah and Son of God that Christians believe he was prophesied to be from the time of Isiah.
white nationalism takes some of that Christian anti-semitism as a springboard to launch into weird pseudoscientific racial hierarchy BS that posits that Jews are somehow intrinsically evil to their genetics and hates them for that.
Both are wrong but seem to emanate from 2 similar but fundamentally different impetuses and currents
Oh okay, but how come Christians don't hate Catholics then as well, the same way? Aren't Catholics descendant of the Roman people very heavily, and those are the same people that also crucified Jesus? Therefore, shouldn't Christians lump Catholics into the same category as Jews?
I mean by the time Christianity swept through Europe all forms of Paganism, which the Romans used to practice during the time of Jesus, was wiped out. The Catholic Church was ruthless and vicious in its bloody elimination and genocide of pagans throughout Europe so there wasn't much point in hating the Romans for killing Jesus when it was the Romans who ultimately converted to Christianity and forcefully spread it throughout their empire.
Oh okay, so they don't hate the Romans for changing their ways. But they still hate the Jews even though they are not the same people as before though?
auntblabby
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25 Dec 2021, 2:10 am
Well, if someone were to say "Jews care about Israel too much" that would be antisemitic. Yet Trump saying "Jews don't care about Israel enough" is antisemitic as well. Despite the fact that this is the "opposite" statement to the above. So which is antisemitic then?
It sounds like making just about any observation involving Jews is automatically antisemitic. But here is logic. Every ethnic/religious group has SOME distinct properties. So, by default, it means Jews should have SOME distinct properties too -- or else they would no longer exist as a group. Yet naming any of those properties is antisemitic. Do you see how that is a bit ridiculous?
Putting terminology aside, many years ago I actually noticed the same things that Trump has, and was wondering about them too (and I am Jewish, although I am Messianic Jew meaning I believe in Jesus while still keeping Jewish law). The statistical fact revealed in demographic surveys is that 80% of Jews vote democrat. Yet the other statitical fact is that Republican party is a lot more pro-Israel than democratic party. And combination of these two facts is what makes it seem like Jews put Israel second to their other political preferences (whatever they might be). The fact that, in America, the evangelical Christians are more pro-Israel than Jews is also a statistical fact revealed on the surveys. And I believe those surveys were carried out by many different organizations, including Jewish ones. So I don't see how it is antisemitic. It is simple re-stating of the results of the surveys.
And like I said it actually contradicts antisemitic theme of Jews supposedly putting Jewish things (including Israel) ahead of everything else.
25 Dec 2021, 2:24 am
QFT wrote:
Well, if someone were to say "Jews care about Israel too much" that would be antisemitic. Yet Trump saying "Jews don't care about Israel enough" is antisemitic as well. Despite the fact that this is the "opposite" statement to the above. So which is antisemitic then?
It sounds like making just about any observation involving Jews is automatically antisemitic. But here is logic. Every ethnic/religious group has SOME distinct properties. So, by default, it means Jews should have SOME distinct properties too -- or else they would no longer exist as a group. Yet naming any of those properties is antisemitic. Do you see how that is a bit ridiculous?
Putting terminology aside, many years ago I actually noticed the same things that Trump has, and was wondering about them too (and I am Jewish, although I am Messianic Jew meaning I believe in Jesus while still keeping Jewish law). The statistical fact revealed in demographic surveys is that 80% of Jews vote democrat. Yet the other statitical fact is that Republican party is a lot more pro-Israel than democratic party. And combination of these two facts is what makes it seem like Jews put Israel second to their other political preferences (whatever they might be). The fact that, in America, the evangelical Christians are more pro-Israel than Jews is also a statistical fact revealed on the surveys. And I believe those surveys were carried out by many different organizations, including Jewish ones. So I don't see how it is antisemitic. It is simple re-stating of the results of the surveys.
And like I said it actually contradicts antisemitic theme of Jews supposedly putting Jewish things (including Israel) ahead of everything else.
It sounds like making just about any observation involving Jews is automatically antisemitic. But here is logic. Every ethnic/religious group has SOME distinct properties. So, by default, it means Jews should have SOME distinct properties too -- or else they would no longer exist as a group. Yet naming any of those properties is antisemitic. Do you see how that is a bit ridiculous?
Putting terminology aside, many years ago I actually noticed the same things that Trump has, and was wondering about them too (and I am Jewish, although I am Messianic Jew meaning I believe in Jesus while still keeping Jewish law). The statistical fact revealed in demographic surveys is that 80% of Jews vote democrat. Yet the other statitical fact is that Republican party is a lot more pro-Israel than democratic party. And combination of these two facts is what makes it seem like Jews put Israel second to their other political preferences (whatever they might be). The fact that, in America, the evangelical Christians are more pro-Israel than Jews is also a statistical fact revealed on the surveys. And I believe those surveys were carried out by many different organizations, including Jewish ones. So I don't see how it is antisemitic. It is simple re-stating of the results of the surveys.
And like I said it actually contradicts antisemitic theme of Jews supposedly putting Jewish things (including Israel) ahead of everything else.
That's interesting. Why are evangelical Christians more pro-Israel compard to Jewish Americans?
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