Tears for Ukraine, Sanctions for Russia, Yawns for Yemen.

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The_Znof
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10 Mar 2022, 11:39 pm

If we are to compare


In terms of the sheer cost of human life, the tragedy in Yemen has been much more deadly than that in Ukraine, where 325 Ukrainians, including 14 children have tragically lost their lives according to Ukrainian officials. Granted the war in Yemen has raged on unabated for more than six years, but comparatively the numbers are astonishing. Since 2015 the death toll has reached an estimated 400,000 people, including 3,900 children.

Those deaths have included attacks on civilians so egregious that they did garner fleeting media attention but, inevitably, no sanctions, little international condemnation, not even a cessation in the military aid and support to the perpetrators. Bombed-out schools, funerals, wedding halls, refugee camps, even a school bus full of children targeted by the most advanced U.S. weaponry on offer have not been sufficient to elicit the reaction that Ukraine has garnered in less than one week.

Since 2015, Saudi-led Coalition warplanes have pounded Yemen with over 266,000 airstrikes, according to the Yemeni Army Operations Room, which records airstrikes against civilian and military targets. Seventy percent of those strikes have hit civilian targets. The rising smoke, rubble and flames now seen in Ukraine have been the status quo in Yemen for years, with Western media often deeming the images that appear on local Yemeni television stations, of parents pulling pieces of their children out from the rubble of their homes or schools, too graphic to display

Tears for Ukraine, Sanctions for Russia, Yawns for Yemen, Arms for Saudis: The West’s Grotesque Double Standard

https://thefreethoughtproject.com/tears ... -standard/



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10 Mar 2022, 11:51 pm

True.People want the Saudi oil.If the West sanctioned them ,people would really howl about gas prices.


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The_Znof
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10 Mar 2022, 11:56 pm



The_Face_of_Boo
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11 Mar 2022, 1:34 am

The Yemen case is a civil war case. It is a war against half of the Yemen. It was the Yemen government that asked the coalition to interfere. The coalition entered after the Houthis took over the country.


The Saudi-led coalition is fighting those:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slogan_ ... i_movement


« The slogan of the Houthi movement (officially called Ansar Allah), a political and religious movement and rebel group in Yemen, reads "Allah is Greater, Death to America, Death to Israel, Curse on the Jews, Victory to Islam" in Arabic text. It is often portrayed on a white flag, with the written text in red and green. »


The solution is to split their country into two, the two camps simple can’t coexist - but Iran shall stop sending rockets to the Houthis.



magz
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11 Mar 2022, 2:26 am

I definitely don't yawn over Syria or Yemen - but I admit I don't really understand many aspects of what's happening there, outside of a humanitarian nightmare. Usually, Middle Eastern alliances and hostilities are complex and intense. I trust Boo's explanations on them, he's close to the events himself.

Ukraine is next to me and I do know the social, political and cultural background very well. It's not complicated: Ukrainians want to get out of Russian "zone of inflluence" and become First World (similarily to e.g. what Poland and Baltic States have done in the recent decades), while Russia is trying to rebuild their empire with their, ahem, traditional tools.

Additionally, Russians don't recognize Ukrainians as a separate nation, but Ukrainians do. They have similar alphabets, traditional religion, and they partially share language, but they have very different political culture.

And, finally, the most direct cause for the West to react: Russian conquer attempts directly threat EU and NATO members. It's more comparable to ISIS than to Yemen in this regard.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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11 Mar 2022, 8:39 am

Russian's outlook on Ukraine is very similar to Assad's outlook on Lebanon.

Ba'ath Syrians never recognized Lebanon as a separate nation, and now there's Iran, which considers the whole Gulf theirs.

As for the Syrian war, everyone interfered: Russia (directly), Turkey (directly), ISIS (Qatar), Hezbollah + Iranian Revolutionary Guards (Iran), Al Nusra (Saudi Arabia), Israel (strikes) ... it's really a spaghetti war.

And please, don't try to convince me that Israel doesn't take permission from Russia in order to do airstrikes against Iranian targets in Syria which are only few kilometers away from their Russian base.



The_Walrus
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11 Mar 2022, 9:12 am

The_Znof wrote:
Those deaths have included attacks on civilians so egregious that they did garner fleeting media attention but, inevitably, no sanctions, little international condemnation, not even a cessation in the military aid and support to the perpetrators.

Erm... this is incorrect.

Sanctions: https://www.un.org/press/en/2021/sc14452.doc.htm
Quote:
The Security Council, in a videoconference meeting today, decided to renew for 12 months a travel ban and assets freeze previously imposed on specific individuals and entities threatening Yemen’s peace, security and stability, while also extending for 13 months the mandate of its Panel of Experts on Yemen.

Adopting resolution 2564 (2021) under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations, and by a vote of 14 in favour to none against with 1 abstention (Russian Federation), the 15-member organ renewed until 28 February 2022 the measures imposed by paragraphs 11 and 15 of resolution 2140 (2014). Those paragraphs obligated Member States to freeze the funds, other financial assets and economic resources on their territories controlled by individuals or entities designated by the Council’s sanctions Committee and asked them to take steps to prevent listed individuals’ entry into or transit through their territories.


That is by the UN, with every member state obliged to comply. A large number of countries have not sanctioned anyone over Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Restrictions of military aid:
https://www.middleeasteye.net/saudi-uae ... -breakdown
Quote:
Three weeks ago, the United States issued a temporary freeze on pending arms sales to Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, as part of an effort to end the civil war in Yemen.

In one of its first major foreign policy announcements, the new US administration of President Joe Biden paused the implementation of recent Trump-era weapons deals, including the sale of munitions to Saudi Arabia and F-35 fighter jets to the UAE.


(Would advise those interested to read the whole article, which breaks down a country-by-country level - some countries like Germany have been excellent, while the UK has been poor)



cyberdad
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13 Mar 2022, 4:47 pm

The big difference is that we are now paying 3 x price of petrol/gas and cost of living has gone up.

We are all paying out of our pockets to sanction Russia. Thus the hardship is being shared. And for how long?

Saudi is also an OPEC country. it executes/beheads 80-100 people a day using swords. China executes people for body parts. Nobody sanctions Saudi Arabia or China.



magz
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14 Mar 2022, 4:02 am

cyberdad wrote:
Saudi is also an OPEC country. it executes/beheads 80-100 people a day using swords. China executes people for body parts. Nobody sanctions Saudi Arabia or China.

The current standard of conduct is, states don't get heavily sanctioned as long as the bad things they do stay within their own borders.
Fair or unfair, it's about international safety rather than human rights.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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14 Mar 2022, 4:17 am

cyberdad wrote:
The big difference is that we are now paying 3 x price of petrol/gas and cost of living has gone up.

We are all paying out of our pockets to sanction Russia. Thus the hardship is being shared. And for how long?

Saudi is also an OPEC country. it executes/beheads 80-100 people a day using swords. China executes people for body parts. Nobody sanctions Saudi Arabia or China.


It's like you are saying that the world should sanction Texas because it's against abortion.

MBS, despite his ruthlessness and controversary, is the best Saudi ruler ever ruled when it comes to reforms and women's rights btw.



cyberdad
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14 Mar 2022, 4:52 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
The big difference is that we are now paying 3 x price of petrol/gas and cost of living has gone up.

We are all paying out of our pockets to sanction Russia. Thus the hardship is being shared. And for how long?

Saudi is also an OPEC country. it executes/beheads 80-100 people a day using swords. China executes people for body parts. Nobody sanctions Saudi Arabia or China.


It's like you are saying that the world should sanction Texas because it's against abortion.

MBS, despite his ruthlessness and controversary, is the best Saudi ruler ever ruled when it comes to reforms and women's rights btw.


Tell that to the people getting their heads lopped off. Saudi Arabia is medieval.



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15 Mar 2022, 1:04 am

Thank you, Boo, for your summary. As it indicates, there are some important differences between Yemen and Ukraine. Yemen was not peaceful before the current interference started. In fact, if memory serves me right, the nation has been in various states of civil war for decades. As with Afghanistan, countries from all over the world occasionally decide to interfere in Yemen, usually managing to make things worse and never fixing anything permanently. Both Afghan and Yemeni society seem to operate under perceptions and priorities outsiders don't seem to be able to understand, while both seem to tempt the powerhouses of the world none-the-less.

Do not confuse having no idea how to help with a lack of caring about the fate of the citizens. I regularly see ads seeking aid for the citizens of Yemen. The conflict is enduring enough to make its way into TV shows needing a dangerous backdrop the heroic protagonist. I know quite well there is pain in Yemen. What I don't know is who to blame or who to put pressure on to get it fixed.

The Ukrainian situation is more black and white: the country was independent and peaceful, albeit with corruption issues, and another nation decided to take over using fabricated reasons as an excuse.


The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
The Yemen case is a civil war case. It is a war against half of the Yemen. It was the Yemen government that asked the coalition to interfere. The coalition entered after the Houthis took over the country.


The Saudi-led coalition is fighting those:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slogan_ ... i_movement


« The slogan of the Houthi movement (officially called Ansar Allah), a political and religious movement and rebel group in Yemen, reads "Allah is Greater, Death to America, Death to Israel, Curse on the Jews, Victory to Islam" in Arabic text. It is often portrayed on a white flag, with the written text in red and green. »


The solution is to split their country into two, the two camps simple can’t coexist - but Iran shall stop sending rockets to the Houthis.


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cyberdad
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15 Mar 2022, 1:20 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
The Ukrainian situation is more black and white: the country was independent and peaceful, albeit with corruption issues, and another nation decided to take over using fabricated reasons as an excuse.


How is Yemen not an independent country? are you suggesting the dead women and children in Yemen are somehow less important than dead Ukrainians?



magz
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15 Mar 2022, 1:29 am

There was a long, pre-existing civil war in Yemen was the difference DW_a_mom pointed out to.

Humanitarian catastrophe is the only thing the two wars have in common.
So humanitarian aid is what they deserve in common.


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cyberdad
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15 Mar 2022, 1:36 am

magz wrote:
There was a long, pre-existing civil war in Yemen was the difference DW_a_mom pointed out to.

Humanitarian catastrophe is the only thing the two wars have in common.
So humanitarian aid is what they deserve in common.


Saudi Arabia invaded Yemen in 2015. That's only a few years ago. At the time no sanctions were applied on Saudi arabia.



magz
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15 Mar 2022, 1:44 am

https://www.cfr.org/global-conflict-tra ... /war-yemen

Quote:
Yemen’s civil war began in 2014 when Houthi insurgents—Shiite rebels with links to Iran and a history of rising up against the Sunni government—took control of Yemen’s capital and largest city, Sana’a, demanding lower fuel prices and a new government.


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