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sly279
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21 Jul 2015, 6:52 pm

Fnord wrote:
sly279 wrote:
trying to make me change my beliefs is an attack in my book ...
I don't see where anyone is making you change your beliefs. No one is making you do anything.

If someone shows you where your beliefs are unfounded, is that an attack?

If someone expresses their own beliefs and why they believe them, is that an attack?

If someone merely states beliefs that you don't agree with, is that an attack?

If you even suspect that someone else's beliefs are different from yours, is that an attack?

Do you perceive any of the questions in this post as an attack?


wh do you need to show someone their beliefs are unfounded. just leave them the f**k alone.

its not them expressing their beliefs I don't' care about that, tis where they push it pass that to where they have to disprove others to make theirs valid. that's just wrong. let everyone have either beliefs in peace. you don't' need to destroy other beliefs to make yours valid having it just to yourself should be enough for that.

how'd you like it if every time you posted about your beliefs someone came in and said you wrong and trying to prove why your wrong and call you stupid for believing it. i mostly avoid any thread to do with atheism and religion because that is the end result not a sharing of different beliefs but having to disprove one to make the other vaild.

is atheism the disbelief in god/gods or the belief in proving god/gods don't' exist? i know a few people who don't believe in god but don't' feel the need to disprove god. they don't' identify as atheist because of this.



AspieUtah
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21 Jul 2015, 6:54 pm

sly279 wrote:
...i often get depressed after being here. I think wp might be responsible for lot of my depression ....

I do, too. Let's not forget the WrongPlanet.net members who have abandoned WP. Many have claimed it was this kind of hostility that forced them to seek solitude from other members. I have watched as some members and too many moderators enjoy violating the meager forum rules that exist.


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Fnord
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21 Jul 2015, 6:57 pm

sly279 wrote:
... idk why atheist dislike us so much. ...
Atheists get attacked for considering religious texts as nothing more than works of fiction. They also get attacked for trying to teach science in places where divine will is invoked as the causa prima for everything from a found penny to a disease that wipes out millions. Christians have confronted and verbally attacked atheists for not praying before a meal, not going to church, and not being magically converted to Chritianity through the intercessory prayers of believers.

Then, of course, there are those Christians who preach virtue while practicing vice, who cover their cars with Christian symbols and then drive like maniacs, and those who see it as a serious personal attack whenever someone tries to explain to them why atheists behave the way they do, and then those same Christains get all hostile and arrogant toward those people who are only trying only to explain what's going on.

So yes, many atheists have legitimate gripes against religious people in general, and Christians in particular.



Last edited by Fnord on 21 Jul 2015, 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sly279
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21 Jul 2015, 6:57 pm

Skibz888 wrote:
The attitude of this site definitely seems to lean more non-theist, though it seems roughly split between politically left and right, so such a thing really goes either way. I'm Christian, but being that I'm a vociferous far-leftist liberal, I seem to get less flack for my beliefs than other, slightly more conservative religious members do.

For a message board about something as broad as ASD, there's no singular factor unifying our beliefs, so it would go without saying that topics such as religion and politics could be alternately civil or chaotic depending on which users are participating in what discussions. There's really no easy way to say "WP is pro-_____ and anti-_____".

Honestly, the main things that have always bugged me about this community is pervasively casual sexism, and the occasionally vocally homophobic or transmisogynistic posters. I left the site for a good half-year because I was tired of seeing such blatant prejudice without any administrative acknowledgement. Considering I don't see it explicitly stated anywhere on the site (I could be wrong?), I question whether or not WP is a LGBT-friendly environment.


usually theres a 10-4 ratio of left vs right. look at politics forum. its usually 10 liberals fighting with 3-4 right leaning people. I wouldn't' even call them right. I'm a democrat middle groundish. thread after thread after thread about guns and its the same people. actually its usually teh same people who start anti religious threads as well. anti religious and anti gun seem to go hand and hand with them. then atleast for guns its 3-4 people who defend it. me, dox, utah, and rapter. so either the conservatives don't post or there aren't as many as liberals here. I think most religious aspies are far too afriad to post here anymore which is sad. a site can't be considered open minded if it makes people of one belief afraid to post.



kraftiekortie
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21 Jul 2015, 6:58 pm

Atheism is a lack of a belief in God.

I am an atheist. I am also an agnostic because I don't belief my atheistic beliefs are absolutely set in stone.

I have a "faith" in my agnostic, atheistic beliefs.

If somebody wants to believe in God, or whatever (as long it doesn't involve purposely hurting people), that's fine with me. I don't actively seek to disprove their belief in God or whatever--it's eminently impossible to really disprove a belief based upon faith.

So I just listen to what people have to say.

Also: You have to try to see the positives instead of the negatives all the time. WP has lots of positives, and a bit of negative, too. It's not WP that's making you depressed: it's your notion of WP that's making you depressed.



KagamineLen
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21 Jul 2015, 7:02 pm

Only the insecure feel the need to force their opinions down the throats of those who disagree with them.

Keep that in mind. I know this is easier said than done, but..... Try not to feel challenged by those who are so insecure in their opinions that they feel the drive to obliterate anything that casts doubt upon their beliefs.



sly279
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21 Jul 2015, 7:03 pm

Fnord wrote:
sly279 wrote:
... idk why atheist dislike us so much. ...
Atheists get attacked for considering religious texts as nothing more than works of fiction. They also get attacked for trying to teach science in places where divine will is invoked as the causa prima for everything from a found penny to a disease that wipes out millions. Christians have confronted and verbally attacked atheists for not praying before a meal, not going to church, and not being magically converted to Chritianity through the intercessory prayers of believers.

Then, of course, there are those Christians who preach virtue while practicing vice, who cover their cars with Christian symbols and then drive like maniacs, and those who see it as a serious personal attack whenever someone tries to explain to them why atheists behave the way they do, and then those same Christians get all hostile and arrogant toward those people who are only trying only to explain what's going on.

So yes, many atheists have legitimate gripes against religious people in general, and Christians in particular.


your blind if you think its a one sided war. that you're side doesn't attack people. you have a right to think that about the bible but why not leave others to follow it in peace. I have no doubt super Christians attack atheist, they attack other Christians. that doesn't' give you and you side the right to attack others. two wrongs don't' make a right. really wish certain atheists and super Christians would just be stuck ina room with knifes and kill each other. so tired of the extremists fighting a way and the rest of us getting caught in the cross fire.

making evolution a option isn't banning it or attacking people for teaching it.

Christians get attacked for praying before meals or going to church. its not a one sided war. so tired of people thinking it is. I don't go to church I don't pray before meals. I simply believe in god and for that one and only reason I 'm the enemy and must be attacked.



sly279
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21 Jul 2015, 7:05 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Atheism is a lack of a belief in God.

I am an atheist. I am also an agnostic because I don't belief my atheistic beliefs are absolutely set in stone.

I have a "faith" in my agnostic, atheistic beliefs.

If somebody wants to believe in God, or whatever (as long it doesn't involve purposely hurting people), that's fine with me. I don't actively seek to disprove their belief in God or whatever--it's eminently impossible to really disprove a belief based upon faith.

So I just listen to what people have to say.

Also: You have to try to see the positives instead of the negatives all the time. WP has lots of positives, and a bit of negative, too. It's not WP that's making you depressed: it's your notion of WP that's making you depressed.


I come on here to be told I'm fat, ugly and worthless and that my beliefs are wrong and I'm stupid. yep that depresses me. politics, adult and love/dating are very depressing and toxic sub forums.but I am interested in love, video games and guns.



AspieUtah
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21 Jul 2015, 7:07 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
...If somebody wants to believe in God, or whatever (as long it doesn't involve purposely hurting people), that's fine with me. I don't actively seek to disprove their belief in God or whatever--it's eminently impossible to really disprove a belief based upon faith....

You are unique, kraftiekortie. That is why I wish your idea of fairness could be written into the rules. But, what sly279 described really does happen here a lot. It is getting more and more strident, as well as difficult to avoid making a big noise in defense.


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sly279
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21 Jul 2015, 7:11 pm

KagamineLen wrote:
Only the insecure feel the need to force their opinions down the throats of those who disagree with them.

Keep that in mind. I know this is easier said than done, but..... Try not to feel challenged by those who are so insecure in their opinions that they feel the drive to obliterate anything that casts doubt upon their beliefs.


i avoid religious and atheist threads normally but that one looked like more a discussion of if most aspies are atheist and why that might be, so I did not for see it becoming an age old Christians are evil thread.
once in such a thread I feel the need to defend myself and its hard to pull out til its locked.

I use to like the science guy but now hes so anti christian and pushy about evolution, i can't stand him . ruined a part of my childhood :cry:

if you make a yummy cake. do you need to force people to eat it, or if its truly yummy won't the yummy smell and descriptions from others about how yummy it is bring them to eat it themselves.
^that is how I view the world. I do n't think people should be converted. instead one should be open about their belief and willing to talk to others if they show interest. Jesus did not force or push people to Christianity he only shared it with them and let them decide. people have free will they need to come to or not come to a belief on their own.



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21 Jul 2015, 7:12 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
[...]

You have to try to see the positives instead of the negatives all the time. WP has lots of positives, and a bit of negative, too. It's not WP that's making you depressed: it's your notion of WP that's making you depressed.
I think that there may be no small measure of unrealistic expectations. There seem to be those who believe that the "support" offered by this website should include complete and total agreement with fundamentalist Christian doctrines against gay marriage, legalized marijuana, state-sponsored medical funding, women in positions of authority, and all of the "Thou Shalts" and "Thou Shalt Nots" that have been erroneously attributed to the Word of God.

Otherwise, I don't see a problem.



KagamineLen
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21 Jul 2015, 7:14 pm

sly279 wrote:
KagamineLen wrote:
Only the insecure feel the need to force their opinions down the throats of those who disagree with them.

Keep that in mind. I know this is easier said than done, but..... Try not to feel challenged by those who are so insecure in their opinions that they feel the drive to obliterate anything that casts doubt upon their beliefs.


i avoid religious and atheist threads normally but that one looked like more a discussion of if most aspies are atheist and why that might be, so I did not for see it becoming an age old Christians are evil thread.
once in such a thread I feel the need to defend myself and its hard to pull out til its locked.

I use to like the science guy but now hes so anti christian and pushy about evolution, i can't stand him . ruined a part of my childhood :cry:

if you make a yummy cake. do you need to force people to eat it, or if its truly yummy won't the yummy smell and descriptions from others about how yummy it is bring them to eat it themselves.
^that is how I view the world. I do n't think people should be converted. instead one should be open about their belief and willing to talk to others if they show interest. Jesus did not force or push people to Christianity he only shared it with them and let them decide. people have free will they need to come to or not come to a belief on their own.


God does not feel threatened by those who do not believe he exists. Why should he, and why should you?



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21 Jul 2015, 7:20 pm

sly279 wrote:
wh do you need to show someone their beliefs are unfounded. just leave them the f**k alone.
why do you view your arguments being dismantled as a personal attack?



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21 Jul 2015, 7:21 pm

KagamineLen wrote:
God does not feel threatened by those who do not believe he exists. Why should he, and why should you?

God might be better equipped to shrug off the hostility that goes beyond merely denying His existence.


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21 Jul 2015, 7:23 pm

sly279 wrote:
[...]

your blind if you think its a one sided war. that you're side doesn't attack people. you have a right to think that about the bible but why not leave others to follow it in peace. I have no doubt super Christians attack atheist, they attack other Christians. that doesn't' give you and you side the right to attack others. two wrongs don't' make a right. really wish certain atheists and super Christians would just be stuck ina room with knifes and kill each other. so tired of the extremists fighting a way and the rest of us getting caught in the cross fire.

[...]
Excuse me? "Your side"?

For your information, I am a Presbyterian elder. Since when does this deny me the right to point out where people's beliefs - especially Christian beliefs - are in error? I have attended Seminary. I have studied the Bible - not just the "happy-fun" parts, but the parts where the heroes of the Bible engage in incest, prostitution, murder, genocide, slavery, and the subjugation of women.

I have said this many times, and I will say it again: I am not an atheist; I just hate religion ... mainly because of those who claim to be Christians, yet who wrongfully label others as atheists and apostates, and then attack them for it.



Last edited by Fnord on 21 Jul 2015, 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fugu
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21 Jul 2015, 7:23 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
KagamineLen wrote:
God does not feel threatened by those who do not believe he exists. Why should he, and why should you?

God might be better equipped to shrug off the hostility that goes beyond merely denying His existence.
God would probably be horrified at the crap humanity has done in his name.