"Two people of the same gender can't produce babies."

Page 1 of 2 [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

NewTime
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Apr 2015
Posts: 2,122

05 Jan 2020, 6:43 pm

There are people who think it is bad for people to be gay because two people of the same gender can't produce a baby. Shouldn't these people be against all sex that doesn't produce babies and be saying that people shouldn't ever have sex unless they are intending on producing a baby?



Dear_one
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Feb 2008
Age: 77
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,721
Location: Where the Great Plains meet the Northern Pines

05 Jan 2020, 7:49 pm

NewTime wrote:
There are people who think it is bad for people to be gay because two people of the same gender can't produce a baby. Shouldn't these people be against all sex that doesn't produce babies and be saying that people shouldn't ever have sex unless they are intending on producing a baby?

They do tend to say that. There are stigmas on contraceptive use. There are standards for dress and behaviour at schools. It is even said that Baptists are opposed to sexual intercourse because it might lead to dancing.
The church attitude is that since it is possible for religious ecstasy to become preferable to sexual pleasure, sex is a distraction from our highest state of consciousness. Unfortunately, religious orders expect people to live like saints before they are able to keep their minds there, and much mischief and confusion results.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,953
Location:      

06 Jan 2020, 9:45 am

People of the same sex cannot produce babies together, but people of the same gender identity can produce babies if they are of opposite sexes.

Sex is physical. Gender identity is psychological. They are not the same thing.


_________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.


IsabellaLinton
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Nov 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 72,433
Location: Chez Quis

06 Jan 2020, 10:48 am

I agree with Fnord. I'd also add that "producing babies" isn't necessary for couples with infertility, or same-sex couples.

"Raising" babies and children with love and guidance, whether single-parenting or as a couple, is more important than producing offspring biologically. Being a good parent involves much more than DNA.

Of course there are options for same-sex gay couples to adopt or use a surrogate. My ex has children with his husband.

Another reminder, two gay people can reproduce if they aren't the same sex. (Gay woman + Gay man).

To answer your specific question from the OP: Yes, I agree those people sound hypocritical and ignorant. Many people have partnerships which will never "produce" children, for various reasons, even if they are cis heterosexual couples.


_________________
I never give you my number, I only give you my situation.
Beatles


Lost_dragon
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2017
Age: 27
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,236
Location: England

06 Jan 2020, 11:52 am

I had a sex-ed teacher who expressed homophobic views in our high/secondary school on this basis. My sex-ed experience was rather dated, we watched old video tapes with hilariously awful acting.

When I was fourteen, I had a sex-ed lesson. The local education board (combined with the input of the parents' committee I suspect) insisted that an abstinence only until marriage message be taught. The teacher also added that ideally we should only be having sex to procreate. A student asked about same-sex relationships. In response, our teacher laughed and asked if he was gay in a mocking tone. Then the students laughed. I didn't. Personally I felt bad for the kid, he looked rather embarrassed. I was closeted at the time. Admittedly I was tempted to walk out. He later added that we "shouldn't be having gay sex if we can help it, because it's pointless since it doesn't lead to procreation". Yet he also taught about wearing condoms. :|

The teacher himself didn't believe that we would take in the push towards abstinence. He was talking to someone beforehand who was later watching over the lesson, and I heard him express his annoyance and amusement regarding the syllabus. The area I grew up in had a considerably high rate of teenage pregnancies. Rather fittingly, in a classroom close to ours there was a girl who was already heavily pregnant. Her teacher sent her to the library during the lesson, since it's difficult to get a bunch of teenagers to take things seriously when a pregnant teenage girl is sat in their abstinence class I'd assume.


_________________
Support human artists!

Near the spectrum but not on it.


BTDT
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Age: 63
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 8,498

06 Jan 2020, 12:18 pm

There are intersex people who don't fall into either binary gender. They may be able to reproduce if they aren't abused by "well meaning" doctors.



Dear_one
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Feb 2008
Age: 77
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,721
Location: Where the Great Plains meet the Northern Pines

06 Jan 2020, 1:00 pm

I don't think that two people of the same gender should raise children in ordinary circumstances. Their odds of teaching how to get along with everyone are reduced. A same-sex couple would need exceptional parenting skills and openness to match the results of an average mixed couple. The exceptionally good and bad folk on each side don't disprove the average. I've heard of lesbians planning a child by artificial insemination, and preparing hell for a boy if one arrived.
My own mother was probably just straight enough for one brief romance, undertaken to provide camouflage. She was never abusive, but I spent my life with a series of women who didn't really like men before I finally figured it out.
These days, overpopulation is affecting us in many ways, including a tremendous blossoming of non-reproductive sexuality. This turbulence produces eddies, of course, and the female urge to reproduce remains strong, and is treated as sacred. There is even a sense of justice, since gays have more trouble finding themselves, being more often with straight parents.
I'd like the new openness to recognize the historic benefits of gay folk to their families. That extra aunt or uncle was able to pass on a quarter of their genes by helping their sibling raise nieces and nephews. Instead, we are creating separate communities, and banishing male role models almost completely in early education. There are better ways to contain pedophiles than pretending they are everywhere.



IsabellaLinton
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Nov 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 72,433
Location: Chez Quis

06 Jan 2020, 1:04 pm

I disagree.

I think there are many examples of successful gay co-parenting, but I also think you have a right to your opinion.

I'm not sure why you mention pedophiles in this context, though? What do pedophiles have to do with gay parenting?


_________________
I never give you my number, I only give you my situation.
Beatles


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

06 Jan 2020, 1:32 pm

My wife’s son and his partner are successfully raising a son.



IsabellaLinton
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Nov 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 72,433
Location: Chez Quis

06 Jan 2020, 1:36 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
My wife’s son and his partner are successfully raising a son.


My ex and his husband are raising two children. There are many examples of this being successful. There are also examples of children being raised by single parents. Love and consistency are all that matters.

I think we're veering off topic to the OP, though. Sorry!


_________________
I never give you my number, I only give you my situation.
Beatles


BTDT
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Age: 63
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 8,498

06 Jan 2020, 1:52 pm

Where I live, it helps to be wealthy. Where I live the wealthy towns have superior school systems.



IsabellaLinton
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Nov 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 72,433
Location: Chez Quis

06 Jan 2020, 2:20 pm

Money certainly helps, especially if it's used for the child's best interest. Of course it's not the most important factor in parenting, though.

Many parents with limited income provide loving care and guidance for their children.

Likewise, some parents with money spend it on frivolities for themselves or the children, or put themselves into debt by living a lavish lifestyle which is totally unnecessary.


_________________
I never give you my number, I only give you my situation.
Beatles


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,953
Location:      

06 Jan 2020, 3:10 pm

Before this thread goes any further, I have to ask:

How many of the people who have already responded are real parents, and how many are merely guessing?


_________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.


IsabellaLinton
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Nov 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 72,433
Location: Chez Quis

06 Jan 2020, 3:11 pm

I'm a real parent.


_________________
I never give you my number, I only give you my situation.
Beatles


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,953
Location:      

06 Jan 2020, 3:38 pm

That makes two of us, so far...


_________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.


nick007
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 May 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,552
Location: was Louisiana but now Vermont in capitalistic military dictatorship called USA

08 Jan 2020, 6:32 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Another reminder, two gay people can reproduce if they aren't the same sex. (Gay woman + Gay man).
A long time ago I read an article about some Jewish sect that allowed gays to get married but only if they had kids with a member of the opposite sex 1st. They were basically wanting gay guys & gay women to hook up to have kids before gay guys could marry other guys or gay girl could marry other girls in their Jewish temple or whatever it's called. Usually churches push abstinence instead of encouraging sex outside of marriage so this seems kinda out there to me.


_________________
"I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem!"
~King Of The Hill


"Hear all, trust nothing"
~Ferengi Rule Of Acquisition #190
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Ru ... cquisition