Have you felt alienated/discounted by the autistic men here?

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Do you really feel this way about yourself? I find it disturbing that you mention the words "disgusting" and "revolting" in this paragraph, implying that you see yourself this way. And that if a woman were to have sex with you, she'd be a victim even if she were to initiate it. I realize you're referring to what might happen if a woman used sexual assault to bully you, but it doesn't seem right that you'd describe yourself that way.

You could start by actually addressing the arguments presented against you.

I share the feelings of the poster who said she is not interested in teaching immature male posters, but it seems this thread will not be allowed to progress in any other direction.

So, once again ... harassment does not equal desire. It is about power and if one victim is unavailable the harasser will move onto another. You seem to be trying to draw a parallel between victimization and value. If it has come to my value resting in the hands of those who seek to harass me sexually, I'll go with valueless and enjoy my alone time.

I like ladies very much...and never want to offend them.

When a person is offended, even their smell becomes unpleasant.

People who are delighted with your company tend to smell better.

No, there's no scientific basis for this---but I feel this on a visceral level.

All in all, I enjoy seeing a woman smile than seeing her frown.

kraftie, are saying I'm stinky?

Thank you for this.

I think in a situation like this, when you show greater sympathy and understanding to a person who is being insensitive, it comes across as being just as insensitive, if not worse.

It's not evidence of anything. Harassment is intended to create doubt in the mind of the person being harassed about the feelings and intentions of the harasser. It is the opposite of having open, honest communication with someone that provides evidence of intent.

Furthermore, male behavior does not determine whether a woman is attractive or desirable. Your arguments are based on the underlying assumption that it does, and this is a very hetero-centric perspective that denies other forms of sexuality. But worse it suggests that women can be defined by male behavior.

What it comes down to is...the behavior of a male towards a female does not give evidence of anything about that female. It does however say a lot about the male who is exhibiting that behavior.

Have you ever considered that there might be a connection between not feeling offended, and being taken advantage of? Feeling offended, in other words recognizing an offensive move, is what triggers people to defend themselves or to get away from those who might do harm.

A common ploy of men who take advantage of women is to play on their sympathies, talking about how lonely they feel, how they can't get a date, haven't had sex since their wife died, etc. etc.

Ann....We always get along....so you smell fine to me

You have a good mind...and you do have a sense of aesthetics.

Eh, that's easier said than done, as it would require getting a mod to move the thread, and I think it was likely created in this forum to avoid dissent in the first place.



Not sure I follow you there, even at the height of that period there were at most 2-4 related threads in here, which is hardly an overwhelming obstacle to other topics.



You seem to be blaming men for having numerical superiority, in the politics section of an Autism board, where demographics pretty much dictate that there's going to be more men than women. Should we hold a council to pick a designated spokesman?



Who's squishing debate? People stake out positions and others attack or defend them, that sounds pretty standard issue. Like I said, there isn't a council of men (at least that I'm aware of), and PPR skews pretty liberal (we've done polls), so it's not like it's full of social conservatives mad at woman outside the home or anything like that, just the usual AS weirdness.

From what I understand, it would be a pain to try and gender gate this forum, and the mods don't want the trouble all around, especially since we don't have a matching Men's forum. I can also see the logic in that there already are occasional problems with people sniping from the Haven at members they have a problem with, and then relying on the rules of that forum to protect them from any rebuttal. I don't imagine you'd like it if the board had a Men's forum where guys where in there griping about women all the time and you weren't allowed to interject in any way, just as many would be pissed if they couldn't rebut attacks on their gender in here, as I'm doing now.



PPR goes in cycles, L&D is the true lost cause, trust me on this one.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I wasn't trying to be insensitive. I didn't find his comments bothersome. Yes, I feel sorry for him. He reminds me of someone I used to know that was very lonely and angry. I have myself been not very nice or have been insensitive when I was younger because I was lonely and angry. So I can relate to that.

I don't have any strong views on feminism. Maybe I just don't think the way most women do. I didn't feel invalidated by his comments. I felt like he was communicating feelings of being unwanted or unattractive. If he wants to think that it's better to be a woman who is harassed, I don't care. Maybe his life really sucks. How am I supposed to know?

I'm sorry, I just tend to feel sorry for people and want to make things better. I'm not on anyone's side, I want people to learn to get along.

First off, you've noticed I'm a man, right? Says "male" right there on the left. (EDIT: Haha, I thought I had that set. No it doesn't. Still, you know that old adage about assumptions?)

Anyway, the logistics do seem like a bit of nightmare. But if that could be made to work, I think having two forums set up that way is a better option than having a women's forum that is open to guys who have difficulty respecting women. We do then have the issue of how trans people are handled, but... baby steps.

"Attacks on [a] gender" really shouldn't be a thing on these forums at all. It creates a negative environment that's likely to drive away people who could be part of this community. I'm sure someone will cry "free speech!" at that, but the owners and operators of an internet forum have no obligation to provide a platform for views if they do not wish to. Requiring them to would be an actual violation of their free speech.

What you've described to me in your posts is a hostile and (I'll say it again) toxic culture. People are going to pick up on that hostility and respond to it accordingly, and that will continue to happen ad infinitum until either it changes or becomes so vile that WP is avoided. Those are the only ways out, really.

It's on the current users of these forums to change this culture by keeping each other in check and fostering an environment in which people feel like they will be listened to, taken seriously, and engaged in actual discussions. That does not require people to change their beliefs, only to be less belligerent, dismissive, vitriolic and hostile to others' beliefs. It is much easier to change that in people who are already here than new arrivals. Established users doing this also shows good faith.

If you're worried that some people would be driven away by such a shift in the forums' culture, take a moment to ponder how many have been driven away without ever really posting anything because they saw it how it is now? Given the main userbase of this site and the behaviors we'd expect? Probably a lot. That seems like the exact opposite of what anyone here wants for WP.



Not going to take any convincing to make me believe that.

"Cycles" aren't really where you want to be on these things, though.

I'll give you that changing peoples minds is extremely hard in the first place, and that doing so when what you're trying to convince them of is that they have it easier than others, especially on a support forum like this one, is even harder, but I still think the calling out, shaming, and privilege checking that are part and parcel of modern feminist discourse make the task exponentially harder.

I'm going to ask you; so what?

@Scaevitas:

I don't even like Dox47, but you're being an ass.

So, given a difficult task, why would you choose to make it harder for yourself? Do you think feminist ideas are more acceptable to people when their own experience with feminists is pleasant, or unpleasant?

This isn't a perfect fit to what we're talking about, but I think it might be useful:

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/26/study_e ... s_partner/

I'm using the link from Salon for irony.