AS Women and Relationships

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^ Seems like a good idea. I'm going to try making things more explicit from now on. However, I can already think of situations where it might be problematic, such as with a boss/supervisor, doctor, father-in-law ... asking them bluntly whether or not they have certain intentions.

People in such roles as those confuse me as well, so I'm not sure what to do about that.

Outlier, I do relate. I hope you can find acceptance around this face. It is so difficult and it sounds as if you struggle with it very much.
I will say that there is so much still, at 46, regarding relating to people - that mystifies me.

I had a terrible day yesterday because I so often cannot understand my art dealers and the gallery system. Art dealers are fluffy people - glorified salespeople basically - with all thy hype and spin. They therefore speak a language we barely understand. I tell them i need concrete answers from them and I communicate I have and ASD and still I get fluff and lies (euphemism for normal talk) which are perfectly acceptable "filler talk" phrases in normal conversation. It is really confusing to me and i end up so dejected because i take their words literally. it is as if I am jammed in a place where i rely on peoples' verbal communication and if they do not follow through on what they say, I am completely muddled and feel so hopeless. My ex partner said yesterday -"i just wish you would learn this is how it is and not get so affected by it."

I had a big show opening in sydney on thursday night, with ten of my works and over a hundred people - I did not go to it- we have had flooding in our region and the road to the airport and the flights were blocked. I was relieved to have an excuse not to go,- my mother rang me and said she KNEW i would be thrilled I couldn't get there - but have spent two days feeling the worst of that kind of "I cannot make sense of the world" stuff. I have a deep awareness and understanding that things others enjoy are hideous for me. It is all too much. Relating is tiring, overwhelming, confusing and like heads talking gibberish all at once. throw a few bright lights in, cacophony and the sounds of the city and you have me in bed for a week with a migraine and the vomiting that goes with it and it is very horrible.

Yes, I can relate. I´ve had this problem most of my life; I have other stories too, worse than the train story...In fact, there are loads of stories to tell! Your stories sound very familiar, by the way.

I finally decided for myself- and I think this is how it works in the "real" world too- that if any person or situation makes me feel off, or uncomfortable, then the person is acting inappropriately. Of course, when I was younger it was harder to know my feelings, so I went along with things....but even then, there was often a vague feeling that something was "off". I now listen to this instinct, and realize that no one has a right to make me do anything I don´t want to do. I think part of the problem is we have to go against our natural instincts to just get by socially in the world, so we end up not really knowing what our instincts are eventually, or we don´t trust them even if we do have them. In any case, my opinion is if you say what you don´t want- doesn´t matter what body language you´re giving- the man has to respect that.

And, about euphemisms...I find these so confusing!! ! Irritating. I´ve been wondering if asking someone out for coffee is actually a euphemism for sex- (at least in Europe)- does anyone know? I´m curious. Every man from the street who asks me out says we should "go for coffee"- (of course, when I first moved to Europe, I would say "but I don´t drink coffee, I drink tea. )

Anyway...1 reason I´m asking is that, on about 2 or 3 occasions, back when people accused me of "not trying hard enough", I tried to be more daring and direct. On a couple of occasions, I met men who seemed nice, and we talked a bit. I wasn´t thinking at all in romantic terms, at least not yet...I just thought these people seemed nice, and I wanted to get to know them, for possible friendship, then....we´ll see. But when I mentioned going for coffee, each man looked at me in TOTAL fear, and even acted shocked! They would make some excuse, or say with glazed eyes "yeah"- and then, after that, they avoided me like the plague! It was as if I had asked them to commit some horrible, perverted sexual act or something. I would have felt really terrible and rejected- (well, I sort of did)- if not for the fact that I was kind of amused by their blatant fear. I mean, I´m a small woman, hardly intimidating for a man. Anyway....I never did THAT again. But I´m wondering, was that a faux pas? Or did I say something I didn´t realize?

millie: sorry you had a tough time lately. I hope it gets better. Do you know how your art show went?

^ Gallery people are such tossers they do not even ring the next day to tell me how it went, even though they said they would.
I know people contacted my email address and said the work was fantastic. I shall not find out yet if i sold anything until I get word from my gallery.
I am going out for a big country drive, as a focus on the miracles of nature always enervates me when I am flat and low about my difficulties with people and the machinery of the social world .

Yes, and I find interaction very disruptive and unsettling. Most encounters with people confuse me terribly. I try not to think about it much, but when it's important (e.g., career-related), it's difficult to avoid. I can imagine it must be much worse dealing with the art scene. I went on a career-related trip once and was floored within a day and had to have someone fly over to bring me home. I was ignored and it felt terrible that others purposely avoided me. I remember it first came on in a crowded room; I was the only one curled up on a chair with my eyes closed. The woman I travelled with avoided me completely after that and spent all her time interacting with strangers. I can understand some of the feelings you are experiencing concerning the opening and similar situations.

I used to just blindly throw myself into such situations. Knowing about autism helps with management, but I've become more sensitive the last couple of years and the best strategy seems to be avoidance. Understanding that others have hidden agandas etc., which I didn't know about until recently, increases my sensitivity.

^ Yes. the exhaustion that comes from social contact and being around people is great in me. One outing and it takes me two days to recover. Your "curl-up" on the chair sounds like me.
I dread any contact hat involves groups because of the exhaustion and processing afterwards.
My ex partner had said to me for year before i was dx'ed that it was strange and weird how i would fly to sydney for my work and then come home and take a week to recover, being in bed, sick withe sensory stuff and migraine and watching tv or dvd's. I would have to retreat like that, and still do. I used to force myself more when on anti-depressants - which gave me more get up and go, but really f****d around with my ability to paint as effectively. It got to the point where my ex would just resent me going anywhere because of the disruption to the family and household.

I do not know what to do really, except languish in my isolation, paint, and worry about the ways of the world and my inability to fit in.
At least I know why now.

I am sorry to hear of your experiences also, outlier. It is not easy and it does affect career and what people think of us, which in turn affects career path and opportunities.

So I don't know if I have AS or not, but I've been leaning on the "not" side lately. However, many of the things mentioned I can relate to.

I always need my space, have been accused of being "unemotional" and "cold-hearted" by ex-boyfriends and friends, and I'm also very straight-forward about things often coming off as rude. But I am understanding of people, even if it is in an artificial kind of way where I use observation of patterns of behavior in individuals, past experiences, and other information given to me to put two and two together in order to "empathize" with my partner. I've never really had much of a problem in relationships honestly. I just always feel guilty that I care more about myself than them in the end and that goes for everyone.

I've been married twice, first time to an aspie man. We had so much in common in some ways that we tended not to notice the problems in our relationship and general coping strategies. For example, if you're both obsessed with the same sci fi universe, it's great at university when you have no responsibilities... but when you're trying to pay the bills, or get a job, it's a bit of a problem.

Also, we'd sometimes get into our areas of independant interest, and neither one of us would appreciate that the other wasn't interested.

He used to have the most immense panic attacks, and I'd just get cross and unsympathetic with him... Sadly, though we have so much in common it just didn't work out.

We're good friends now though, which is just as well for our son.

My second husband was a highly focussed, intelligent, driven man, alpha male type, and we got on beautifully. I wouldn't say he was neurotypical, but he wasn't aspie either. He was unique, and brilliant in his field. Sadly, I'm widowed now. I'm happy not to be in a relationship though, I wouldn't want to be in love again. It's horrible when it ends.

Welcome to the thread, belle enigma and mgran!

millie and outlier: yes, I can relate to these problems with social work situations, and having to recuperate after! Though I guess I´m very lucky that I don´t have it in the extreme, I don´t get migraines and vomiting. millie, I don´t know how you do it, that must be so hard! I am a TOTAL baby about throwing up, it´s like a huge fear of mine...well, that´s another story...but I´m amazed what you go through. You really do make a big effort, things that so many others take for granted.

outlier, I know what you mean about hidden agendas and how difficult that is. I´ve often felt devastated by this sort of thing. I remember the first time I ever did a show of my own choreography, I was so excited about doing something creative and putting it together. But during the precess, I had SO MANY problems with people, it was unbelievable! When it was over, I was so broken somehow that I vowed that I would never choreograph again! (Much as I liked the creative aspect, I just didn´t like the people aspect). Well, somehow, (after a long break), I did choreograph again, and went on to direct some shows. And they were all just as hard! There were so many shows I did which were actually successful, where it should have been my moment of triumph, but unfortunately the problems that people created really put a major damper on things. It´s amazing how that can happen. Maybe I´m just too sensitive...though I´m sure the fact that I have trouble picking up things, and not knowing what´s really going on is probably what contributes to this problem. Anyway, after these bouts of work, I would often visit my parents house, take a vacation, be a total zombie, and spend the whole summer trying to process what it was that just went on....ah, people are just too complicated!

But anyway, this reminded my of the next question I wanted to ask regarding relationships....

Next question: did anybody else feel totally drained being in a relationship?

I sure did! I remember realizing a few times, in different relationships, how hard it was for me to be in a full time job AND have a relationship at the same time. I felt totally frazzled, like I could barely handle it. I couldn´t imagine how some people could have a job, a relationship and a child thrown on top of it! But, this is "normal", and I used to wonder what was wrong with me.

I was also very surprised that relationships ended up being so exhausting: based on what I had heard and read, I had actually expected them to be energizing. In addition to that, whenever I had a crush on someone or fell in love (usually from afar), the feelings I had stimulated me, and gave me more energy. So this came as a total surprise....

^ Yes.
The expectation of sharing a bed and sharing a life and sharing activities and cooking and s**t chat is not a part of my day to day life. I live with my ex. Our relationship is functional in every sense of the word.

Prior to splitting up our relationship was also functional but was complicated by attempts to adhere to normal emotions-based therapies that did nothing for me or for him other than f**k up our brains and make me feel even more of a loser than i already am. I clung to those types of relationship therapies as i was told in rehab and in 12 step programs that is what I needed.
It was not. It is not.

Talking is actually plain exhausting for me unless it is a topic i am interested in. If i am interested i can engage, but my reciprocal communication requires a lot of effort (eg - I say to my self - "ok, here now millie, this is where you enquire about what they have just said," and "Millie, pull the conversation back to the topic, you are going off on a ramble," or "Millie, don;t jump in loudly here, just shut up, and keep it to yourself," or/and 'feign interest here...this is where people smile and say "wow, really?" ' This is a small sample of the internal workings that go on in me WHEN i talk one on one with people. None of it flows. It is all work, cognitive and exhausting. It leaves scant room for comprehension of the words of the talking head opposite me. So I miss a lot. An awful lot. Phone is much easier for me. I also have a movies screen in my brain which means I have that happening as well and quite frankly, reciprocal communication beyond 30 or so minutes is just really hard.

I am also very, very good with words and a bit of a comic, so i have survived that way. Eccentric millie, "the card."
I like Glenn Gould. I am a little bit like a female of him sometimes.

So basically, my relationships are exhausting. I do get lonely and i know i need some contact with people, so i make the effort at times. Misguidedly, usually.

Until finding out about ASD's, I had no idea that people just cruised through relating without this internal process of conscious and cogntivie self-willing and self-guiding.

You mean, some people actually just flow? That was a shock to me...to learn that the way i processed and performed and "worked at" relating was not the norm.

A revelation that still to this day baffles and befuddles me to no end. The idea of just naturally relating, without constant, exhausting effort, is beyond my comprehension.

yes, it is rather fascinating isn't it, melissa17b, to think that people actually enjoy chitchat that has no reason or purpose or function - that it is more or less like a kind of flowing bonding ritual that is comparatively effortless.
I almost feel my frontal lobes exploding when i am around people for too long.

Each week, I teach for 4 hours. Two hours, lunch break on my own - of about twenty minutes and another hour and a half or so. I find it exhausting and monday afternoons i come home wrecked. I go to the toilet a few times in the class session and sit there on the loo, rock, with my head in my hands, just saying to myself "hurry up, time, hurry up and end...what the f**k do these people talk about, if it isn't art?" these people are all quite nice people...but it is the exhaustion of the relating that gets to me.
they get tired from painting, and i do not. I get tired from talking, and they do not. Ne'er the twain shall meet.

To Morgana's second question... Yes, relationships take a toll on me and not just boyfriends, but friends and even family members, which is why I have very little friends and avoid much of my family, because anyone who I feel negatively affects me I start avoiding. When school becomes hectic, I'm quick to drop all of the people closest to me. Somehow, I feel it makes things easier and less stressful. Dealing with people is just hard in general. Now I don't know what the hell is wrong with me with my current romantic relationship. When I stop and think about it, it makes absolutely no sense to be putting myself through so much pain for this one guy. I don't understand the attachment I have for him. But even if it doesn't work out, I am grateful that I was able to love at least once in my life because before I met him I truly did not think I could ever fall in love.

I quite literally get a headache - of the degree that I need to take painkillers - if I'm forced to interact with people for too long. Even on the rare occasions that I manage to get the other party onto an actual topic, as opposed to chitchat and have enjoyed the discussion, the effort needed to follow the interaction, to not only think about how to phrase what I want to say, but to concentrate on their words, expressions, tone of voice to make sure I don't miss anything, is exhausting. There is no such thing as a 'relaxing chat' for me.