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Cad
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15 Oct 2011, 5:24 am

I'm having a bad few years and this is a (very long) rant. Guys feel free to comment also. If you don't want to read it, don't.

While I'm usually a melancholic person, I'm feeling increasingly depressed and sometimes wonder if the struggle of life is too much. I am 22 and have had boyfriends pretty much all my life. I have no problem talking to guys or meeting them. In school having a boyfriend was easy - you found a guy you liked, usually knew them already or were friends with them (so you knew what you were getting into), asked them out, and you went to the movies together, held hands, kissed, and it was fun until you broke up because of some stupid reason (they didn't come to your party?). Then I met a guy when I was 17 and we dated for a year and a bit, probably my most serious relationship. We were very close friends and did a lot together, but never had sex; we thought it'd happen eventually but for the time being were ok just getting to know each other and hanging out. It just never really came up and wasn't an issue, but we broke up due to me moving away to study. After that, every relationship I have gets harder and harder because of the same issue, sex. I truly think I am beyond repair in this department and should either find a gf or just be single. Why is this such a big problem? Answer: Me.

When I was 12 I had a bf for a month or so and he tried to force me to have sex with him so this has always made me a bit wary of doing it, even though I have a normal sex drive and everything else is normal. I was bought up with my mum telling me not to just do it with anyone, save it for someone you love, and my dad and brother are very caring and respectful to women and aren't like your typical men's men. When I first started realising that guys were flirting with me (took me ages to work this out) I didn't know how to respond, I never knew how to flirt back, and it just used to make me angry that they were looking at me in that way. After my relationship at 17 ended, I was so upset I just wanted to go out and find someone to replace him, so a group of friends went down to the pub and all of a sudden, I found out how to flirt with guys. I spent a whole year going out and flirting and meeting guys, kissing them and letting them buy me drinks and then after I met quite a few I realised they didn't like me. They just wanted sex (and fair enough, I realised I was acting in a way that'd make them think I wanted it too). I liked being able to act sexy and flirty and have guys think of me as a woman rather than an awkward tomboy which I was, but at the same time I didn't want to do it with them because I still had my values as described above. So I stopped going out to pubs.

From then on, I'd still meet guys and they'd buy me drinks (I'm not very assertive so saying 'no' when people are constantly pressuring me, or just buying me a drink and giving it to me is hard) and do all this stuff for me but it was only because they wanted sex. It would always go that they'd ask to walk me back to my place and I'd say no, and they'd say They'd do it anyway, then they'd get to my door and I'd say bye and they would look at me so angry and frustrated because they were there for sex and they did all that s**t and I didn't even put out. That used to make me mad because I didn't even ask for their drinks or them to walk me home in the first place. I realised after a while you had to refuse stuff like that because if a guy buys you drinks then you always have to replay them with sex.

This is so confusing and is almost pushing me over the edge. I could go a number of ways with my thoughts:

1. If guys go to such lengths just for sex, then it must be pretty amazing and I should just go out there and do it and stop being such an immature c**t
2. All men want is sex, simple. So unless I want it too, stay away. This is hard because although I do want sex, I need to get to know someone well before I start forming feelings like that towards them. If I feel lust towards a guy without knowing him, I wouldn't want to do it with him because I'd feel like I was just using him for my own personal gain which I don't want to do. I could sleep with a guy then get to know him, but what if I do and he turns out to be a c**t?
3. Just be happy being single. No other people's feelings to worry about except for your own. This is ok except I get lonely and it'd be great to have friends but I've moved away to a new city for work and have no friends where I live now. I can't meet girls very well at all either.

This issue always comes up for me. The other night I went out with some people I met at a bar, and there was this very attractive guy there. We got drunk and started making out on the dance floor and he asked me back to his place. I said no that I don't do it straight up like that, and he said ok and left it. I felt bad cause I wouldn'tve made out with him if I was sober, I just get carried away with guys and end up doing stuff like that. Then they get mad at me. He gave me his number but I don't know if I should call him because he probably just wants sex.

I'm not after answers or sympathy or anything, I know I'm a f****d up b***h, and I know that alcohol is a problem like that for me. I just needed to get this off my chest.

Cad



Negolin
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15 Oct 2011, 5:54 am

Feel better now?



Vince
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15 Oct 2011, 6:06 am

So, let me get this straight... You go to the breeding grounds, you participate in the mating rituals, and then you hate men because they expect it to lead somewhere?
You have every right to not go any further, but it makes little sense to hate people for it - they go to the breeding grounds because that's where people hook up for sex. It's pretty well known. You can't really get mad at them for being there for exactly what the place exists for. You can get mad if they get too pushy, certainly, but there's also a certain responsibility in how you respond to their advances. If you let them know early on that you're not interested, most of them will leave you alone.
If you're not looking for casual sex, how about not going to the breeding grounds and accepting drinks? I never go to pubs, nor do I ever accept drinks or even drink alcohol, or make out with strangers, and I haven't experienced any of the problems you describe. Nor have I ever exhibited any of the behaviors you describe.
You hate men? Why? What have I done?


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Cad
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15 Oct 2011, 6:17 am

I go to pubs and drink because I have no friends and I hate myself more than I hate men. And no, I don't feel better, and no, I don't understand why I do it



Cad
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15 Oct 2011, 6:20 am

I guess I want men to be my friends because they share more interests with me than women do, but all the ones I meet pretend to want to get to know me but just want sex



HondaZx2
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15 Oct 2011, 6:35 am

Cad wrote:
I guess I want men to be my friends because they share more interests with me than women do, but all the ones I meet pretend to want to get to know me but just want sex


easy to be friends with men!
1) establish boundarys (note: do NOT be super flirtatious, that can be massively misinterprited for any male - NT / Aspie alike)

2) go to places that does not have the potential of lowering a persons inhabitions (generally a place that serves booze) or find male friends that are gay and have little to no physical interest in you

3) drink a 5 hour shot of "COMMON SENSE"

wine tasting where people SPIT the wine out is decent place, or places that do not serve alcohol

(yes, my spelling is terribad with out a spell checker program)



Cad
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15 Oct 2011, 6:51 am

HondaZx2 wrote:
Cad wrote:
I guess I want men to be my friends because they share more interests with me than women do, but all the ones I meet pretend to want to get to know me but just want sex


easy to be friends with men!
1) establish boundarys (note: do NOT be super flirtatious, that can be massively misinterprited for any male - NT / Aspie alike)

2) go to places that does not have the potential of lowering a persons inhabitions (generally a place that serves booze) or find male friends that are gay and have little to no physical interest in you

3) drink a 5 hour shot of "COMMON SENSE"

wine tasting where people SPIT the wine out is decent place, or places that do not serve alcohol

(yes, my spelling is terribad with out a spell checker program)


Thanks, Honda...I need to stop drinking, I know it is a problem and it's a problem with a lot of people in my family.



Vince
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15 Oct 2011, 7:29 am

Cad wrote:
I guess I want men to be my friends because they share more interests with me than women do, but all the ones I meet pretend to want to get to know me but just want sex

That's because you go looking for them at the breeding grounds - big mistake.
Go somewhere where there are people who share your interests, who are not specifically there to get laid. Obviously I don't know what your interests are, so I can't tell you where that would be, but avoid pubs if you're not looking for casual sex. And when you do find someone you wanna connect with as friends, don't flirt with them. Don't lead them on. Don't make out with them. And don't drink alcohol. Also, try to avoid body language that signals attraction, such as playing with your hair. Apart from that, it all depends on who you're talking to. With some guys it might help to speak/act/dress in a slightly "masculine" fashion, while others will find that extremely sexy. However, a lot of guys who are attracted to "masculine" women won't try to push things as they might hope you'll make the first move. So in that sense, you might get a double win in that way, in that you might gain friends who won't try anything but whom you might be able to turn into more than friends if you see fit eventually. I'm not saying necessarily go full butch, but you did say you're somewhat of a tomboy, so just be yourself. Don't play games. Relax and have some real conversation. And stay off the breeding grounds.


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Cad
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15 Oct 2011, 8:40 am

Vince wrote:
That's because you go looking for them at the breeding grounds - big mistake.
Go somewhere where there are people who share your interests, who are not specifically there to get laid. Obviously I don't know what your interests are, so I can't tell you where that would be, but avoid pubs if you're not looking for casual sex. And when you do find someone you wanna connect with as friends, don't flirt with them. Don't lead them on. Don't make out with them. And don't drink alcohol. Also, try to avoid body language that signals attraction, such as playing with your hair. Apart from that, it all depends on who you're talking to. With some guys it might help to speak/act/dress in a slightly "masculine" fashion, while others will find that extremely sexy. However, a lot of guys who are attracted to "masculine" women won't try to push things as they might hope you'll make the first move. So in that sense, you might get a double win in that way, in that you might gain friends who won't try anything but whom you might be able to turn into more than friends if you see fit eventually. I'm not saying necessarily go full butch, but you did say you're somewhat of a tomboy, so just be yourself. Don't play games. Relax and have some real conversation. And stay off the breeding grounds.


Thanks for the advice, Vince, it's really helpful. It's taking me a while to learn what body language is regarded as flirty and what isn't, often my body language is different from what I'm saying and I don't understand the body language of other people so I can't really learn from example. I love going to pubs and drinking but I've moved to a new city where I have no friends/family so I've just been going out myself, maybe I should stop doing this. I'm bisexual and am fairly tomboyish but I don't usually dress that masculine, just jeans/shirt/sneakers. I never get dressed up, wear makeup or do my hair (I never do anything to my hair full stop), I'm a skinny runt and generally look like a feral so I don't know how anyone's even attracted to me to be honest (people used to even call me the cave man at school). I don't intentionally play games and I hate messing people around which is why it makes me so upset. I'll follow your advice though and try to find some clubs or something or join a team....

Cad



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16 Oct 2011, 5:13 pm

i can see that since you are still wanting to be friends with men, and i hope you do not go the route of deciding all that men want is sex. they don't. i've been with some men with a much lower sex drive than me, nad many men do not place sex at the top of their priority list. Vince gave you some awesome advice about starting to spend time in places that are not meat markets. people don't really make friends in bars too much.

you also need to learn to establish boundaries (like HondaZx2 said). i won't lie to you - i first learned how to set boundaries only 3 years ago, after i had made many mistakes and had many questionable experiences. i learned that nobody will respect my body if i don't respect it myself. when i saw my body as a means to get attention or garner self-worth, it backfired over time and i ended up hating myself and questioning everyone's motives.

the reason why i am bringing this up is that you can change the environment where you are meeting men, but if you do not change your own perspectives on the inside it is just a matter of time before you fall back into old patterns even if no alcohol is involved. it took me a lot of therapy to learn a better path, and i am still not perfect. but im much better than i was.

be careful with topic titles like "I hate men" as it can be considered sexist. i came into the thread worried you were going to need a warning for some kind of hate-filled post. once i read your message i could see that you do not intend it that way, but i advise you to be careful.


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17 Oct 2011, 1:11 am

hyperlexian wrote:
i can see that since you are still wanting to be friends with men, and i hope you do not go the route of deciding all that men want is sex. they don't. i've been with some men with a much lower sex drive than me, nad many men do not place sex at the top of their priority list. Vince gave you some awesome advice about starting to spend time in places that are not meat markets. people don't really make friends in bars too much.

you also need to learn to establish boundaries (like HondaZx2 said). i won't lie to you - i first learned how to set boundaries only 3 years ago, after i had made many mistakes and had many questionable experiences. i learned that nobody will respect my body if i don't respect it myself. when i saw my body as a means to get attention or garner self-worth, it backfired over time and i ended up hating myself and questioning everyone's motives.

the reason why i am bringing this up is that you can change the environment where you are meeting men, but if you do not change your own perspectives on the inside it is just a matter of time before you fall back into old patterns even if no alcohol is involved. it took me a lot of therapy to learn a better path, and i am still not perfect. but im much better than i was.

be careful with topic titles like "I hate men" as it can be considered sexist. i came into the thread worried you were going to need a warning for some kind of hate-filled post. once i read your message i could see that you do not intend it that way, but i advise you to be careful.


I just want a girl that I can trust with my :heart:



Lady-ivy
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17 Oct 2011, 3:59 pm

well lets see you hate men. but you put your self in the unwanted attenction zone alot by going to bars, by acting sexy and flirty to men in the bars, and maybe drinking too much achool. And hate that all these men want to have sex with you. well the turth is when you compine filrtese, achool in a bar. and bars are ussally seen as hookup places ecpsical when compine filrt behaver it bound to have men that just see you as hookup. and it no wander this happens

If want to meet men and you are not looking for hookup. i suggest you look in other places besides bars and liten the flirting.

I happen to love men. and there is nothing with being a tomeboy even though i condered my a half tomboy/half bookish girly girly.



IDontGetIt
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17 Oct 2011, 4:13 pm

Or maybe it will do the men some good to get knocked back every now and then. I mean, so they bought some drinks and then walked to a girl's house, so what - do they imagine they have made some great effort there?



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17 Oct 2011, 4:54 pm

Lady-ivy wrote:
well lets see you hate men. but you put your self in the unwanted attenction zone alot by going to bars, by acting sexy and flirty to men in the bars, and maybe drinking too much achool. And hate that all these men want to have sex with you.


I don't think she's completely at fault as she doesn't know what she's doing, but yes, generally men go to bars and places like that because, largely, they want sex. If you don't want to have sex with random men, avoid going to these places on your own. Or go to a café or a library instead.



Baris10
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19 Oct 2011, 6:22 pm

I'm only 17, so I'm not sure if my comment will count for anything; but personally I'm not really interested in sex. The attraction from the prospect of a relationship for me would be more towrds the emotional involvement (being close to someone, feeling cared for/wanted/needed. I guess I'd also like to cuddle and hold hands, but past that seems... I don't know, not mundane exactly, just not needed.



Cad
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25 Oct 2011, 6:22 am

Thanks for all the replies guys.
Hyperlexian: I never used to have this attitude, just started having it after a few bad breakups so I know it's my fault and I can change it. Didn't mean the title, I was really angry and upset when I wrote this.

LadyIvy: I get it, I'm f****d up. You don't need to tell me that.