Friend with Autism refuses to break from routine

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I can understand EXACTLY how your friend feels.

For me, ANY distruption to routine is like the 1st dominoe tipping over in a "Dominoe Rally".
It knocks into the next, that tips over, & then the next, and the next, and before I know it my ENTIRE routine is chaotic.
That leads to an increased risk of overload due to random input from external sources; the result if the routine isn't "repaired" being Meltdown.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf-AECBFLpQ[/youtube]
That one small action of asking your friend to break his routine, may be like the first dominoe being pushed over.

Ok the OP checking in here. Well I know more about Autism and specifically Aspergers than I ever wanted to know after doing extensive research on my own.

I now know that most of the things I found annoying about my friend he either cannot or has limited ability to control. Today I read an article about autism that people with this often cannot work out unless they have special conditions. I am giving the cliff notes but in the article the males with autism are paired with NT's that are female and thus they have incentive to attend the workouts. They are given workout time 7 days a week as routine is important to them. Another thing I learned from a different article about Aspergers is that people with this type of Autism want to make social connections they just have trouble doing it. I have seen this behavior in him recently - he messaged two mutual friends inviting them to do one of his 5 activities he does as part of routine. I learned a lot of other things in the last few months / weeks / days but those were the most significant I learned today. I really had a problem accepting that the behavior can't be helped. I have come to accept it for the most part. The bit I read today that people with the condition don't understand the point of working out and typically can't work out was mind blowing.

I wanted to relate some of my own story. My brother and I were outcasts and ostracized as children and young adults in grade school. Recently we were watching a teen movie together (we are in our 30s now). I did not enjoy the movie. I explained to my brother that we were the booger picking kids - in every teen party movie there is one kid that is the loser, the booger picker, the dork, etc and we were that kid so why watch a fantasy movie with a bunch of kids enjoying a life we never had. A particular low point in my life was in college. I joined a club, I won't even bother to say what club, but one day after a meeting of it I came home and sobbed into my pillow because I did not have one friend. I was supposed to be having the time of my life in college but I wasn't and quite the opposite was occurring.

I was able to categorically identify every thing that was wrong with me and holding me back socially and squash them. I had bad teeth so I got braces. I had thick glasses - I got contacts. I was small, the smallest runt in my class. I started lifting weights. My teeth were off white - I whitened them. I became a workout freak. I tanned but only in phases of a month or two a year so as to not damage my skin permanently and get that leatherskin look. I had severe allergies - think of the worst allergies you can imagine and x10. I used nasal sprays, benadryl, claritin, vicks inhalers and most recently neti pot has changed my life. It turned out I had some wierd tics I did when I talked to people. I rarely made eye contact, had severe social anxiety and raised my chin up in a wierd way when I talked so I worked on these things. I didn't know my a-- from a hole in the ground with women, so I listened to self help cds on how to talk to women. The specific set I used and I am not tied to this company in any way shape or form is called RSD Transformations (can see a preview on youtube, or pirate it if you know how, I don't care). I started to learn the female specimen. What I learned was that my social skills sucked a lot of a-- and I was never going to talk women into dating me off confidently and interestingly talking to them which is what a lot of guys you see who aren't special looking use to get dates. So I had to use physique. I had to workout in the gym a lot to where people would talk about me when I entered a room. I had to dress nice. I didn't know how to dress nice so I asked some people and they practically picked the clothes out for me. I began to get dates and I dated some big girls I mean not the prettiest horses in the pasture but the point was to learn women and it helped. I did not have standards in the beginning. A wise ladies man explained that there is no need to judge women if you aren't getting married then who cares date a girl who is not so great looking or is big. I got better with women and I got more muscular. I finally got the skills to talk to girls who were the kind of girls you want to meet who could keep you up daydreaming about them at night because they were physically attractive and personality attractive. On the journey I learned that the girls who were big or not so great looking that they had redeeming qualities also and honestly the only thing that kept me from going steady with a couple of them was a buddy telling me I could do better and to hold out. I guess as I go through life this is the journey I chose for myself so I would not have to cry into a pillow. I realize that some people reading this they may not be able to lift weights and do all the things I have rattled off. To them I would say finding someone is a special event in life and keep trying don't give up and don't be afraid to give someone a chance who is not a supermodel because when you break yourself down and your existence you will find you have flaws like we all do so expecting perfection is often times not realistic. In life I have found you have two choices with dating you can either evolve into something more attractive and seek out more attractive mate from that event or you can find someone who is on your level so if you are like I was the "booger picking kid" then you will need to date the equivalent of that and at times I will admit I did. I will say life is hard and I felt something today reading some of this information I guess it was empathy or compassion. We watch movies and they are so dramatic a hero shoots someone to make a daring rescue or he makes the ultimate sacrifice of his life to save a family from disaster. Real life is nothing like that for 99.9% of us. "Life goes on". Life is continous and a series of moments it is a marathon and it is worth getting back up after you get knocked down so many times by life. Never tie your life and your value and worth and existence to one event or one thing because life is not like that. Your value as a person is inherent and your existence in the universe meaningful and that is something that my friend with Aspergers taught me a while back.

So you can stop being friends with a person for reasons less than hating them, or them being so offensive to you?

I suppose I am not very developed in this area but I stop being friends with the a**holes, people who can't accept my differences and well...I think that's it. There are other people I just move on from.

I would only really stop being friends with a person if I hated them or they just put way too much pressure on me to change.

The way you're explaining it sounds like a rule and I don't like it being a rule.

I dont know if it helps to the topic, but for me, to change my routine is as well a matter of time, that I have to prepare myself. Everything that actually starts with "Tomorrow we want to do...", "Hi, xyz and me just planned about doing xxx this evening..." is already in an dead end, if it is not about an emergency. Even if it is about stuff that I like, changing my dayplan that fast, is simply stress for me.

I do like trying new things, but I highly appreciate if I can plan for it 2-3 weeks before. Else it only causes stress, and I will not really be enjoying it.

When you think about it, that's actually hilariously sad.

Why? Anyone can *become* friends with anyone else for any reason as well. Even people who don't seem compatible at all can become friends. People drift together, and sometimes they drift apart.

Last edited by LostInSpace on 11 Feb 2014, 9:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

I consider "mov[ing] on from" people to be the same as no longer being friends with them. If you don't interact with them at all anymore in the context of a friendship, why do you still consider yourself friends? Stopping a friendship doesn't have to mean sending them an angry break-up letter. Sometimes people just stop hanging out. Or maybe they move away from each other and don't keep in contact. Friendships don't need to end with a bang. Most probably end with a whimper.

"males with autism paired with NTs that are female" you make it sound like some kind of lab test or experiment, as though we (autistic people) were rats.

"routine is important to them"

Yes, we know that. We're autistic ourselves. We are the "them" you are referring to. You're on a forum for autistic people. It might have been more polite to say "as I'm aware that routine is important to you."

When you say "work out" are you referring to exercising? If so, I don't know what "article" you were reading, but it is woefully incorrect.

Unless the autistic person concerned has other disabilities, there is no reason at all why s/he cannot exercise. Loads of people on this forum are into exercising and keeping fit. Of course, there may be others who are sendentary couch potatoes, but that's simply because we are all different and the users here come from all different backgrounds and are all unique individuals.

Autistic people are not clones. You should not say "people with this [autism] often cannot work out" because that simply isn't true. We are all individuals, with our own hobbies and interests, likes and dislikes, and different personality traits. As is the case with the general population, some of us like to exercise and are able to do so, and others don't like to exercise.

It is certainly true that any autistic person who exercises will do so by scheduling the exercise into his or her routine, and will become upset if s/he isn't able to exercise on a day when the routine says the exercise is meant to happen. However, that principle applies to any activity undertaken by an autistic person, not just exercise.

Personally I prefer to exercise alone and in the privacy of my own home, or outdoors somewhere where I am not interacting with people. I would absolutely HATE to be "paired" with another person, because that would turn the exercise into a form of social interaction and I would probably be expected to talk to the other person at some point. That would irritate me immensely. Exercise is about keeping fit. It's not about having a chat.

I would go to a gym if the gym were completely empty and nobody else were there so I could have it all to myself, but gyms tend to be full of people. People make me very anxious. Hence I avoid gyms. But not all autistic people avoid gyms. I am just one person. I am only telling you what I am like. People are all different. Some go to gyms, some don't.

Instead of reading all those "articles" (which sound as though they are not being written by autistic people themselves, and seem to be treating autistic people as test subjects) why don't you try reading things written by autistic people, here on the forum? Or why don't you try talking to your friend, and asking him to explain how he experiences life? He is, after all, a unique individual, and no two autistic people are ever exactly the same. If you find him so "annoying" maybe you should just walk away and stop distressing him by trying to be his "friend."

That's assuming that the autistic person is heterosexual, not asexual, or doesn't have too many problems with social interaction or shyness. Pairing me with anyone wouldn't give me any incentive to work out. It's too much pressure. Telling me that it would make me more attractive to potential sex partners would mean little to me because I don't have sex. Working out 7 days a week would only work out if they are physically capable and manage to not overdo it and hurt themself enough to stop exercising and break the routine.

I think the best things to do would be to just do things they want once in a while (if you want to do them too) and occasionally give a no pressure invite a few days or more in advance that they can do if they want to and feel comfortable.

I don't really have friends and don't leave the house much and it would really bother me if I felt pressured to go out with friends when I didn't want to.

Ok first I kind of made a mistake using the word autism when my friend has a very specialized version of autism called Aspergers. Second and I said this before he does a lot of things that would be considered rude if it weren't that he has Aspergers so I have to make sure I understand what he has because then its not rude and its not him it is just the Aspergers. As far as my friend being annoying, all people are annoying. Especially once you start setting expectations on people, they become annoying because they may not live into your preconceived notions. I can honestly say every friend and family member I have has gotten on my nerves at some point. Thats just part of being human, people annoy you and you annoy them. I would like to be a more loving and accepting person in general towards my friend and other people and to do that I feel I need to understand him. You mentioned talking to him. I don't really know a way to approach him about the subject and talk openly as I have never heard him acknowledge he has Aspergers even though he does and people around him have talked about it. I guess if I were going to talk to him openly I would ask what it feels like when he goes to a place that he has not been to around people he doesn't know. I used to suffer from social anxiety for several years stemming from my ostracization as a child. I typically don't suffer from it anymore and wonder if his anxiety is similar or if it is more intense. I have witnessed someone have a panic attack and begin hyper ventilating and wonder if it is more like that. I also wondered if it is a fight or flight response occurring. I have had my life in danger a couple of times and the endorphins and chemicals being sent to the brain altered my complete state of mind for a few minutes almost making me someone I wasn't during those intense moments. But you know I don't have anymore expectations of this thread I wouldn't mind hearing some more responses but a lot of the responses are getting a bit one sided which is fair I mean I came into your territory to your turf to discuss a topic I am alien to that is a part of your lives and to be honest I wanted to see the thoughts and feelings of people with autism because the observers of it do not have such a deep investment in it and understanding it. As far as my friend I can sense our relationship is a bit strained right now so I am going to leave him alone and maybe in a week or two I will message him out of the blue or call him and give him a couple days notice to go do something with people we both know and maybe just see how it goes from there. I think a nice foray downtown for a cup of coffee on me would be nice as I know he likes that area and so do I. Anyway thanks for the responses they have been helpful and I hope to learn more and gain more insight in the future.

I have stopped being friends with people before and most of the time it's due to lack of respect they had for me. One of them was because she had the inferior complex and she looked down on others and she thought all her problems were better than others and thought they had no right to complain or have their own issues because they didn't get what she had and I tried telling her everyone has different things that have happened to them and their own misfortunes and look on the bright side what some others have gotten she never got and she took it the wrong way as me telling her to shut up and having no right to be unhappy. She also had jealousy issues too and she told me I had to put up with her behavior because I am aspie and it ticked me off so I blocked her and never looked back. Some people on the forum we both went to thought she had some personality disorder. I don't remember which disorder. She once told me she was going to start making stuff up to make other people jealous.

Me and another person drifting apart, I don't see that as me stop being their friend, we just grew apart. That has happened in my childhood too. These kids were friends with me and then the following school year they weren't in my class again so they had other kids to play with and we were never together again. We drifted apart so technically we did stop being friends. I sometimes wonder if they were my friend just to be nice and out of pity.

Like others have said I think the best thing for you to do is talk to your friend and ask him what he actually wants.

Also, I think you need to reconsider the way you think and talk about women. Personally I find some of the things you say very offensive.

That's OK. It's understandable you don't know all the jargon. Asperger's is not a "specialized version" of autism. It's just a high-functioning kind. I know about it because I have it myself. What "high-functioning" means is that basically people with Asperger's are able to function to a higher level in society, and they can act more "normal" than people with classic autism. Aspergers is still autism. It's just a milder form.

Lower-functioning people (people with classic autism) might not be able to "act" normal. They might not prevent themselves from doing "weird" things when in the company of others, whereas people with Aspergers are normally quite good at "acting" normal and restraining themselves from doing things that might seem "weird" when in the company of others. However, doing all that acting can be extremely stressful. When in the company of others we are constantly having to put on an "act" to please them.

Imagine how you would feel if the situation were reversed: if you found yourself in a world full of autistic people who did not accept you unless you pretended to be autistic whenever you were in their company, you would soon get tired of acting, and wish you could slip away and be by yourself so you could drop the act and return to your normal self. That's how it is for us, only it's the other way round. If we want to be accepted, we have to pretend not to be autistic when in other people's company.

Putting on an act all day is extremely draining so it's no wonder we crave solitude and long to be away from other people and be alone again, so that we can be ourselves and do our "weird" stuff like flapping our hands, talking to ourselves, making strange noises, pacing up and down, and things like that.

The life experience you are having as a woman and the life experience I am having as a man can be very similar in some ways as we are both human beings, but they can also be two different worlds ala the venus and mars analogy. I don't want to offend you or anyone else on this site but a good example is the 900 pound woman. Some man will date that woman. That woman can get a man to date her. When the shoe is on the other foot, not so much. This has to do with men being the conquerer role and women being the nurturer role. I'm leaving sexuality (homo/hetero/aesexuality) out of this but obviously the dynamics change with different scenarios. I'm really here to exchange information and ideas. I am not here to troll or offend you so if I said something that offended you that was not my intent.