Israel to trial CBD as treatment for autism

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Nades
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11 Aug 2022, 2:15 pm

carlos55 wrote:
CBD oil is hardly a cure for autism so many people are getting carried away here.

As far as treatment is concerned I’m rather skeptical CBD is over hyped in general maybe they think it helps with anxiety but my personal experience cannabis makes me more anxious not less.

I believe there should be a cure and treatment for autism anyway for those that want it.

Many autism’s cause severe impairment and ruin people’s lives so saying it’s just a benign difference is being economical with the truth

If your happy with the way you are good luck to you if others including the most disabled want to change they should be allowed to without judgment.


At best the conclusion from this study will drudge up as we all expected.....CBD doesn;t do much but perhaps it takes the edge of sensory issues and hyperactive behavour in some autistics.

As for cannabis related compounds, I used to get either happy or anxious. They certainly made me more sociable but it was so overpowering it was a clear "that guy is on drugs" sociable and hardly subtle.



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11 Aug 2022, 2:18 pm

Nades wrote:
DanielW wrote:

Its forced when developing brains that have been kept in a drugged stupor while that are still developing can no longer give consent when they are finally old enough to do so.

I'm not going to discuss the political issue of the government being the sole arbiter of what is best for those who cannot consent. As for the ability of autism parents to know what's best for these children? Well, there are too many who become so desperate for a "cure" that they are force feeding them bleach and subjecting them to what can amount to torture.

My issue isn't with CBD, my issue is the history of treating the outward signs and behaviors they decide are embarrassing, with yes, what amounts to a lifetime of sedation. What about the hyperactive kids with heart disease from being force to take stimulants on the long term basis, so they sit quietly at school?


Drugs that turn children's brains into white mush haven't been a thing for a long time now.

The problem is that autism is becoming a identity in itself. It's getting to the point where any and all research in ways to mitigate against autism symptoms are opposed due to an attack on "autistic identity"

I dislike autism and any identity that comes with it. I think autism is a ruthless disorder that I would gladly see the back of. As a child it caused me grief and I would have jumped at the chance to have some sort of drug to mitigate against it.

Many people with autism want just one thing. To fit in and be accepted. I'm all for anything that helps make it a reality.

I just find it annoying with society deciding on what's a good or bad autistic and an increasing number of autistics deciding to box other autistics in to their self made identity and being judged accordingly with how well they conform and mash into said box.


Have you ever stopped to consider where that desire comes from? That need to fit in that becomes so important that you yourself said you would have force-fed your younger self any drug that would help you fit in?

What if the message wasn't "fit in at any cost" but something along the lines of "you aren't exactly like the rest of us, but that's OK."?



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11 Aug 2022, 2:26 pm

DanielW wrote:
Nades wrote:
DanielW wrote:

Its forced when developing brains that have been kept in a drugged stupor while that are still developing can no longer give consent when they are finally old enough to do so.

I'm not going to discuss the political issue of the government being the sole arbiter of what is best for those who cannot consent. As for the ability of autism parents to know what's best for these children? Well, there are too many who become so desperate for a "cure" that they are force feeding them bleach and subjecting them to what can amount to torture.

My issue isn't with CBD, my issue is the history of treating the outward signs and behaviors they decide are embarrassing, with yes, what amounts to a lifetime of sedation. What about the hyperactive kids with heart disease from being force to take stimulants on the long term basis, so they sit quietly at school?


Drugs that turn children's brains into white mush haven't been a thing for a long time now.

The problem is that autism is becoming a identity in itself. It's getting to the point where any and all research in ways to mitigate against autism symptoms are opposed due to an attack on "autistic identity"

I dislike autism and any identity that comes with it. I think autism is a ruthless disorder that I would gladly see the back of. As a child it caused me grief and I would have jumped at the chance to have some sort of drug to mitigate against it.

Many people with autism want just one thing. To fit in and be accepted. I'm all for anything that helps make it a reality.

I just find it annoying with society deciding on what's a good or bad autistic and an increasing number of autistics deciding to box other autistics in to their self made identity and being judged accordingly with how well they conform and mash into said box.


Have you ever stopped to consider where that desire comes from? That need to fit in that becomes so important that you yourself said you would have force-fed your younger self any drug that would help you fit in?

What if the message wasn't "fit in at any cost" but something along the lines of "you aren't exactly like the rest of us, but that's OK."?


It's OK to be different, but you will get treated differently for being different. Many autistics hate being treated differently. WP is a good example of how many autistics dislike it.

Autism just isn't an "identity". I get almost religious cult like vibes looking at how aggressively some autistics defend how good autism is. It's an extremely alienating, lonely and frustrating disorder yet so many autistics seem to love it. I just find it weird.

The only people who really like autism are the ones who's autism are so bad they live a life of ignorant bliss with all their needs being met via carers and welfare. The milder people generally have to run head first into the same obstacles everyone else does and by god does autism make those walls harder.



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11 Aug 2022, 2:37 pm

KitLily wrote:
DanielW wrote:
Nades wrote:
I'm fairness, treating the outward appearance of autism might make peers more likely to accept such an autistic into their social circle which might have long term benefits to an autistic.

Acting like the odd one out means people see you as different. More often than not they treat different people...well.. differently.


How is that fair to the autistic person? Is drugging them their entire life a fair thing to do? Its like asking an "ugly" person to wear a bag over their head when they might be seen,


Surely it would be better to educate people to see differences as natural and be more accepting. There is no way all humans are going to be identical and god help us if we were! Imagine how boring that would be. Humans are naturally individuals and there is a vast range of differences.

I don't mean 'differences' as in things that make people's lives a misery like illnesses. But 'differences' as in appearance, ways of speaking and using language, getting enthusiastic about things that other people find boring etc.


You're never going to make inappropriate infodumping, excessively prosodic language use and an inability to shut-up about obscure interests into charismatic traits (for example). There's other categories where the options might essentially be mask or be an alien and in some cases the cringe induced by the latter isn't a conscious response, it's subconscious so it's unlikely to be 'corrected'.

There's a number of other traits typical of autism that are genuine negatives to deal with and that it's not entirely fair to expect radical shifts in attitude, considering that they represent demonstrating traits that humans appear to naturally select against when choosing companionship. People prefer the company of people they can relate to. Our experience is inherently less able to be related to, it's inherently an outsider perspective.


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Last edited by funeralxempire on 11 Aug 2022, 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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11 Aug 2022, 2:38 pm

Nades wrote:
It's OK to be different, but you will get treated differently for being different. Many autistics hate being treated differently. WP is a good example of how many autistics dislike it.

Autism just isn't an "identity". I get almost religious cult like vibes looking at how aggressively some autistics defend how good autism is. It's an extremely alienating, lonely and frustrating disorder yet so many autistics seem to love it. I just find it weird.

The only people who really like autism are the ones who's autism are so bad they live a life of ignorant bliss with all their needs being met via carers and welfare. The milder people generally have to run head first into the same obstacles everyone else does and by god does autism make those walls harder.


I'm not disagreeing with you there. Not even a little. I don't love having autism, I don't see it as a super-power. I just don't agree with anyone deciding that I am not acceptable as I am. I was diagnosed PDD-NOS and ADHD as a pre-schooler, and was medicated, and subjected to severe behavior modification "therapy" as a result, I DO have heart disease, and PTSD. All of which came from other people deciding what was best for me. That's why I know first-hand the harm that society can do when they get to decide what behaviors are and are not acceptable.

There is a reason for the line in the hypocratic oath "first do no harm"



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11 Aug 2022, 3:14 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

You're never going to make inappropriate infodumping, excessively prosodic language use and an inability to shut-up about obscure interests into charismatic traits (for example). There's other categories where the options might essentially be mask or be an alien and in some cases the cringe induced by the latter isn't a conscious response, it's subconscious so it's unlikely to be 'corrected'.

There's a number of other traits typical of autism that are genuine negatives to deal with and that it's not entirely fair to expect radical shifts in attitude, considering that they represent demonstrating traits that humans appear to naturally select against when choosing companionship. People prefer the company of people they can relate to. Our experience is inherently less able to be related to, it's inherently an outsider perspective.


Never in a million years will our numerous annoying traits ever be considered enjoyable to endure from the perspective of a hapless NT. No amount of advocacy will ever change how exasperating having a meltdown when eggs are not properly hard boiled or flapping to the theme of My Little Pony in McDonalds is to wider society.

If this is who a lot of autistics are, then why accept them for who they are? I wouldn't and I'm autistic myself.



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11 Aug 2022, 3:27 pm

Nades wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:

You're never going to make inappropriate infodumping, excessively prosodic language use and an inability to shut-up about obscure interests into charismatic traits (for example). There's other categories where the options might essentially be mask or be an alien and in some cases the cringe induced by the latter isn't a conscious response, it's subconscious so it's unlikely to be 'corrected'.

There's a number of other traits typical of autism that are genuine negatives to deal with and that it's not entirely fair to expect radical shifts in attitude, considering that they represent demonstrating traits that humans appear to naturally select against when choosing companionship. People prefer the company of people they can relate to. Our experience is inherently less able to be related to, it's inherently an outsider perspective.


Never in a million years will our numerous annoying traits ever be considered enjoyable to endure from the perspective of a hapless NT. No amount of advocacy will ever change how exasperating having a meltdown when eggs are not properly hard boiled or flapping to the theme of My Little Pony in McDonalds is to wider society.

If this is who a lot of autistics are, then why accept them for who they are? I wouldn't and I'm autistic myself.


This is heading to far off-topic. If you want to defend the world that can't accept you, you may. I won't stop you.



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11 Aug 2022, 3:27 pm

DanielW wrote:
Nades wrote:
It's OK to be different, but you will get treated differently for being different. Many autistics hate being treated differently. WP is a good example of how many autistics dislike it.

Autism just isn't an "identity". I get almost religious cult like vibes looking at how aggressively some autistics defend how good autism is. It's an extremely alienating, lonely and frustrating disorder yet so many autistics seem to love it. I just find it weird.

The only people who really like autism are the ones who's autism are so bad they live a life of ignorant bliss with all their needs being met via carers and welfare. The milder people generally have to run head first into the same obstacles everyone else does and by god does autism make those walls harder.


I'm not disagreeing with you there. Not even a little. I don't love having autism, I don't see it as a super-power. I just don't agree with anyone deciding that I am not acceptable as I am. I was diagnosed PDD-NOS and ADHD as a pre-schooler, and was medicated, and subjected to severe behavior modification "therapy" as a result, I DO have heart disease, and PTSD. All of which came from other people deciding what was best for me. That's why I know first-hand the harm that society can do when they get to decide what behaviors are and are not acceptable.

There is a reason for the line in the hypocratic oath "first do no harm"


As you touched on earlier which I think is very relevant but I didn't respond to it at the time, parents are often the biggest hindrance to an autistic child. To many parents, an autistic child is just extra brownie points. They get to demonstrate their hands on parenting to all those who care to see. I know parents like that personally where the only thing that matters is their smug, arrogant delight in taking centre stage in their disabled child's life. Publically patting themselves on the back for how awesome they are at dealing with the helpless situation their child is in. One woman has a young child with terminal cancer and she wastes no time in placing herself in the limelight on Facebook with the daily updates as how she's such a brilliant parent at dealing with it all.

She just loves the fact her son is dying. She milks it for all it's worth. It's all about her, her and her as is often the case with parents with autistic kids.

Parents can and do abuse and exploit their own kids for social credit. That said mild treatments like this just can't really do any harm and I can't see any long term problems.



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11 Aug 2022, 3:32 pm

Nades wrote:
. That said mild treatments like this just can't really do any harm and I can't see any long term problems.


We often don't see the long-term problems, or the harm until it too late...that's my whole point.



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11 Aug 2022, 3:40 pm

DanielW wrote:
Nades wrote:
It's OK to be different, but you will get treated differently for being different. Many autistics hate being treated differently. WP is a good example of how many autistics dislike it.

Autism just isn't an "identity". I get almost religious cult like vibes looking at how aggressively some autistics defend how good autism is. It's an extremely alienating, lonely and frustrating disorder yet so many autistics seem to love it. I just find it weird.

The only people who really like autism are the ones who's autism are so bad they live a life of ignorant bliss with all their needs being met via carers and welfare. The milder people generally have to run head first into the same obstacles everyone else does and by god does autism make those walls harder.


I'm not disagreeing with you there. Not even a little. I don't love having autism, I don't see it as a super-power. I just don't agree with anyone deciding that I am not acceptable as I am. I was diagnosed PDD-NOS and ADHD as a pre-schooler, and was medicated, and subjected to severe behavior modification "therapy" as a result, I DO have heart disease, and PTSD. All of which came from other people deciding what was best for me. That's why I know first-hand the harm that society can do when they get to decide what behaviors are and are not acceptable.

There is a reason for the line in the hypocratic oath "first do no harm"


For a start your treating autism as a single condition when its an unknown number of different genetic versions and severity levels in just 30% of the autisms that the cause is known.

Try building an identity out of that when they are all split up into a hundred different conditions in 20 years from now LOL :D

Some autisms are livable others are not so you cant generalise.

Quote:
I just don't agree with anyone deciding that I am not acceptable as I am


Building self worth around a medical disorder will just lead to frustration, anger and stress in trying to defend the undefendable.

This is visible everyday with the many Autistic Twitter trolls wasting their time bothering moms of autistic kids, scientists and anyone dares saying something they dont like such as Sia or William Shatner.

I find its better to build my own self worth from being a human being and whatever strengths i have. Live and let live

Medical progress will march on regardless and the 99.9% of the world wont care for an angry band of cosseted internet warriors that want to stop kids leading better lives.


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11 Aug 2022, 3:48 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
You're never going to make inappropriate infodumping, excessively prosodic language use and an inability to shut-up about obscure interests into charismatic traits (for example). There's other categories where the options might essentially be mask or be an alien and in some cases the cringe induced by the latter isn't a conscious response, it's subconscious so it's unlikely to be 'corrected'.

There's a number of other traits typical of autism that are genuine negatives to deal with and that it's not entirely fair to expect radical shifts in attitude, considering that they represent demonstrating traits that humans appear to naturally select against when choosing companionship. People prefer the company of people they can relate to. Our experience is inherently less able to be related to, it's inherently an outsider perspective.


So autistic people are supposed to suppress everything about themselves so everyone can act the same, be the same etc? That will lead the human race down a dangerous path to every possible difference being eradicated...

Why is it a radical shift in attitude? It's not difficult to accept that people are different to each other. Why does everyone have to be charismatic anyway? Trying to be charismatic is very hard work and unlikely to happen IMO.


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11 Aug 2022, 3:51 pm

My friend has a 26 year old son with severe autism who doesn't talk much, he makes noises and flaps etc. At home in the Midlands, he and his son get funny looks and comments. But they're on holiday on the South Coast now. He said that he hasn't got a single funny look or comment and they've travelled all over the county. He said that's unusual but it just shows it's possible for people to be accepting.


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11 Aug 2022, 4:05 pm

KitLily wrote:
My friend has a 26 year old son with severe autism who doesn't talk much, he makes noises and flaps etc. At home in the Midlands, he and his son get funny looks and comments. But they're on holiday on the South Coast now. He said that he hasn't got a single funny look or comment and they've travelled all over the county. He said that's unusual but it just shows it's possible for people to be accepting.


Going by stats if he avoids any accidents and dangers many severely autistic /ID people face like wandering drowning or poisoning etc.. he will still likely have a shortened life expectancy of around 40.

He will have to deal with cognitive stress and pain that NT people don’t usually have at times like high fear and anxiety so being severely autistic is not about just being accepted.

The pain is real

This is why autism can never just be an identity the negatives for those most impaired are too great.


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11 Aug 2022, 4:09 pm

KitLily wrote:
So autistic people are supposed to suppress everything about themselves so everyone can act the same, be the same etc? That will lead the human race down a dangerous path to every possible difference being eradicated...

Why is it a radical shift in attitude? It's not difficult to accept that people are different to each other. Why does everyone have to be charismatic anyway? Trying to be charismatic is very hard work and unlikely to happen IMO.


(Talking about high functioning autism)

Traits that make others uncomfortable, yes. There are many, many different types of people in the world but a line needs to be drawn somewhere on what is and isn't acceptable. Sometimes autistic people are just rude to put it bluntly. Autistic traits or not being rude is being rude. I think any autistic who is so invested on being themselves to the point it's clearly making others around them feel awkward is an obnoxious autistic.

Nobody has to be charismatic too, he just said what the opposite of charismatic is. Autistics need to moderate their behaviour around others even if it means no longer feeling oneself anymore. It doesn't have to be anything endearing but a 30 year old man getting rid of a fidget spinner and teddy bear while out in public is a bare minimum. Being autistic myself, I have a tendency to avoid autistics who are clearly making fools of themselves.



Last edited by Nades on 11 Aug 2022, 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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11 Aug 2022, 4:11 pm

KitLily wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
You're never going to make inappropriate infodumping, excessively prosodic language use and an inability to shut-up about obscure interests into charismatic traits (for example). There's other categories where the options might essentially be mask or be an alien and in some cases the cringe induced by the latter isn't a conscious response, it's subconscious so it's unlikely to be 'corrected'.

There's a number of other traits typical of autism that are genuine negatives to deal with and that it's not entirely fair to expect radical shifts in attitude, considering that they represent demonstrating traits that humans appear to naturally select against when choosing companionship. People prefer the company of people they can relate to. Our experience is inherently less able to be related to, it's inherently an outsider perspective.


So autistic people are supposed to suppress everything about themselves so everyone can act the same, be the same etc? That will lead the human race down a dangerous path to every possible difference being eradicated...


Now where did I say any of that?

You can't address what I actually said so you create a strawman to argue against instead.


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11 Aug 2022, 4:25 pm

Weed changed my life.

I smoked dope almost daily for my sophomore, junior and senior years of college and then regularly for the following three years of law school. Being high settled my social anxiety immensely. Before my sophomore year I hadn't even really had a girlfriend and didn't feel that I had genuinely close friends. Within four years I had a number of bosom buddies and was engaged to one of the most beautiful girls in my undergraduate school.

I am practically Patient X for the use of cannabis by autistic persons. I heartily recommend it.