China Gene Editing Creates Autistic Dogs

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carlos55
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03 Dec 2023, 12:19 pm

There`s other articles from science publications backing up the claims:

https://english.cas.cn/newsroom/cas_med ... 4736.shtml

Looks like US scientists were involved too:-

https://247newsagency.com/technology/275781.html

It appears they have created autistic monkeys too although this is old news:

https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/monke ... ey-traits/

The only thing left to wonder is when will will they sell them to open up the autistic zoo? will the public demand a refund if all the animals hide behind the rock & tree and don't want to cooperate with NT mobile selfies. :D

Maybe after losing income they`ll bring in the animal ABA :D


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NowWhatDoIDo
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03 Dec 2023, 12:34 pm

carlos55 wrote:
There`s other articles from science publications backing up the claims:

https://english.cas.cn/newsroom/cas_med ... 4736.shtml

Looks like US scientists were involved too:-

https://247newsagency.com/technology/275781.html

It appears they have created autistic monkeys too although this is old news:

https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/monke ... ey-traits/

The only thing left to wonder is when will will they sell them to open up the autistic zoo? will the public demand a refund if all the animals hide behind the rock & tree and don't want to cooperate with NT mobile selfies. :D

Maybe after losing income they`ll bring in the animal ABA :D


The first link here has the exact same verbiage as your original link. It's just a repost of the original press release.

It even has the words I criticized.

Quote:
ASD is a common mental illness in children and adolescents. About one in 100 children has autism, according to the World Health Organization. The mental and neurological disorder is a developmental lifelong condition, affecting an estimated one percent of the population worldwide.



carlos55
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03 Dec 2023, 1:26 pm

NowWhatDoIDo wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
There`s other articles from science publications backing up the claims:

https://english.cas.cn/newsroom/cas_med ... 4736.shtml

Looks like US scientists were involved too:-

https://247newsagency.com/technology/275781.html

It appears they have created autistic monkeys too although this is old news:

https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/monke ... ey-traits/

The only thing left to wonder is when will will they sell them to open up the autistic zoo? will the public demand a refund if all the animals hide behind the rock & tree and don't want to cooperate with NT mobile selfies. :D

Maybe after losing income they`ll bring in the animal ABA :D


The first link here has the exact same verbiage as your original link. It's just a repost of the original press release.

It even has the words I criticized.

Quote:
ASD is a common mental illness in children and adolescents. About one in 100 children has autism, according to the World Health Organization. The mental and neurological disorder is a developmental lifelong condition, affecting an estimated one percent of the population worldwide.


The 1st was a news article the new one was from the research organisation themselves

The language may either be just the way the Chinese look at autism, or more likely someone or machine translated to english, so meaning may be lost in translation


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NowWhatDoIDo
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03 Dec 2023, 1:52 pm

carlos55 wrote:

The 1st was a news article the new one was from the research organisation themselves

The language may either be just the way the Chinese look at autism, or more likely someone or machine translated to english, so meaning may be lost in translation


My objections are not because of translation. It's literally the same press release repeated in two places. There is no link to the actual scientific paper, or even the abstract. It's not peer reviewed. I think that basic scientific literacy is very important and sources like this are not valid.

However, I did find the original paper, linked here:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37848710/

One thing to note is that their conclusions are not that these dogs are actually autistic, just that they think they've proven that creating "mutant" dogs is a good way to study human brain types and mental disorders.

So aside from the immoral nature of abusing dogs in this way, it's not even clear what they've claimed to have done. They are using CRISPR to edit genes of these poor animals and then using their lowered trust of humans as proof of their supposed "autism" and "anxiety"

This is just junk science, and the fact that it's only being picked up by Chinese tabloids is just further proof of that.

I rarely support animal testing, but in this case it's just completely abhorrent and serves no ethical or medical purpose, and the purpose of this whole study is to prove that dogs make good candidates for further torture.

Sorry, this whole thing just angers me.



carlos55
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03 Dec 2023, 2:30 pm

NowWhatDoIDo wrote:
carlos55 wrote:

The 1st was a news article the new one was from the research organisation themselves

The language may either be just the way the Chinese look at autism, or more likely someone or machine translated to english, so meaning may be lost in translation


My objections are not because of translation. It's literally the same press release repeated in two places. There is no link to the actual scientific paper, or even the abstract. It's not peer reviewed. I think that basic scientific literacy is very important and sources like this are not valid.

However, I did find the original paper, linked here:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37848710/

One thing to note is that their conclusions are not that these dogs are actually autistic, just that they think they've proven that creating "mutant" dogs is a good way to study human brain types and mental disorders.

So aside from the immoral nature of abusing dogs in this way, it's not even clear what they've claimed to have done. They are using CRISPR to edit genes of these poor animals and then using their lowered trust of humans as proof of their supposed "autism" and "anxiety"

This is just junk science, and the fact that it's only being picked up by Chinese tabloids is just further proof of that.

I rarely support animal testing, but in this case it's just completely abhorrent and serves no ethical or medical purpose, and the purpose of this whole study is to prove that dogs make good candidates for further torture.

Sorry, this whole thing just angers me.


Animal testing is a controversial subject that i wont get into.

The reason for multiple links were just proof that this happened like or hate.

Since as some suggested it was just made up tabloid alongside "i married an alien" headline junk.


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NowWhatDoIDo
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03 Dec 2023, 3:00 pm

carlos55 wrote:
NowWhatDoIDo wrote:
carlos55 wrote:

The 1st was a news article the new one was from the research organisation themselves

The language may either be just the way the Chinese look at autism, or more likely someone or machine translated to english, so meaning may be lost in translation


My objections are not because of translation. It's literally the same press release repeated in two places. There is no link to the actual scientific paper, or even the abstract. It's not peer reviewed. I think that basic scientific literacy is very important and sources like this are not valid.

However, I did find the original paper, linked here:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37848710/

One thing to note is that their conclusions are not that these dogs are actually autistic, just that they think they've proven that creating "mutant" dogs is a good way to study human brain types and mental disorders.

So aside from the immoral nature of abusing dogs in this way, it's not even clear what they've claimed to have done. They are using CRISPR to edit genes of these poor animals and then using their lowered trust of humans as proof of their supposed "autism" and "anxiety"

This is just junk science, and the fact that it's only being picked up by Chinese tabloids is just further proof of that.

I rarely support animal testing, but in this case it's just completely abhorrent and serves no ethical or medical purpose, and the purpose of this whole study is to prove that dogs make good candidates for further torture.

Sorry, this whole thing just angers me.


Animal testing is a controversial subject that i wont get into.

The reason for multiple links were just proof that this happened like or hate.

Since as some suggested it was just made up tabloid alongside "i married an alien" headline junk.


It WAS made up because the study never claimed to create autistic dogs. It claimed to demonstrate that dogs are good candidates for CRISPR gene editing as a way to test for mental health issues in humans. So the original article completely mischaracterized the purpose of the study, and the results, and the ramifications.



funeralxempire
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03 Dec 2023, 3:13 pm

Reading the abstract it sure sounds like they've got dogs that display some pretty characteristic traits associated with autism, created via CRISPR.

One's emotional attachment to the shitbeasts doesn't change whether or not they make a good model.
One's emotional disgust over the nature of the experiment doesn't make their claims less valid.


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carlos55
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03 Dec 2023, 3:32 pm

NowWhatDoIDo wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
NowWhatDoIDo wrote:
carlos55 wrote:

The 1st was a news article the new one was from the research organisation themselves

The language may either be just the way the Chinese look at autism, or more likely someone or machine translated to english, so meaning may be lost in translation


My objections are not because of translation. It's literally the same press release repeated in two places. There is no link to the actual scientific paper, or even the abstract. It's not peer reviewed. I think that basic scientific literacy is very important and sources like this are not valid.

However, I did find the original paper, linked here:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37848710/

One thing to note is that their conclusions are not that these dogs are actually autistic, just that they think they've proven that creating "mutant" dogs is a good way to study human brain types and mental disorders.

So aside from the immoral nature of abusing dogs in this way, it's not even clear what they've claimed to have done. They are using CRISPR to edit genes of these poor animals and then using their lowered trust of humans as proof of their supposed "autism" and "anxiety"

This is just junk science, and the fact that it's only being picked up by Chinese tabloids is just further proof of that.

I rarely support animal testing, but in this case it's just completely abhorrent and serves no ethical or medical purpose, and the purpose of this whole study is to prove that dogs make good candidates for further torture.

Sorry, this whole thing just angers me.


Animal testing is a controversial subject that i wont get into.

The reason for multiple links were just proof that this happened like or hate.

Since as some suggested it was just made up tabloid alongside "i married an alien" headline junk.


It WAS made up because the study never claimed to create autistic dogs. It claimed to demonstrate that dogs are good candidates for CRISPR gene editing as a way to test for mental health issues in humans. So the original article completely mischaracterized the purpose of the study, and the results, and the ramifications.


From just the link you provided it seems like it went way beyond just modelling or whatever they mean by that:

Quote:
In this study, we aimed to model ASD in experimental dogs by manipulating the Shank3 gene as SHANK3 mutations are one of most replicated genetic defects identified from ASD patients. Using CRISPR/Cas9 gene editing, we successfully generated and characterized multiple lines of Beagle Shank3 (bShank3) mutants that have been propagated for a few generations.


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37848710/

In layman's terms they created autistic dogs or at least the shank3 version of autism.


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Elgee
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03 Dec 2023, 10:02 pm

I'd imagine that an autistic dog would behave much like a cat.



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03 Dec 2023, 10:55 pm

Elgee wrote:
I'd imagine that an autistic dog would behave much like a cat.


I'd expect domestic cats to have a higher 'pro-human' drive than a dog with the shank3 mutation.
It wouldn't be surprising if the dog was closer to a wild animal in that regard, rather than like any domesticated animal.


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carlos55
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04 Dec 2023, 5:03 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Elgee wrote:
I'd imagine that an autistic dog would behave much like a cat.


I'd expect domestic cats to have a higher 'pro-human' drive than a dog with the shank3 mutation.
It wouldn't be surprising if the dog was closer to a wild animal in that regard, rather than like any domesticated animal.


Age old debate which is smarter or more loyal cats or dogs, many claim cats are just interested for as long as you provide for them.

Coincidentally I saw a joke book in the library a while back why cats have Asperger’s

I like both cats and dogs but suspect changes in dog behaviour would be more interesting and noticeable.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/All-Cats-Have- ... C68&sr=8-1


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04 Dec 2023, 1:36 pm

That article leaves a lot of questions. Is a dog even a real animal or just a variety of different creatures created by breeding? How do you define a NT dog? What is the equivalent to people's small talk - wag the tail? Or special interests? This Chinese research project sounds like BS to me.


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04 Dec 2023, 3:38 pm

BillyTree wrote:
That article leaves a lot of questions. Is a dog even a real animal or just a variety of different creatures created by breeding? How do you define a NT dog? What is the equivalent to people's small talk - wag the tail? Or special interests? This Chinese research project sounds like BS to me.


If the dog has a mutation that's known to produce autism, that seems like a pretty solid reason to assume that the test subject is autistic, just like everything else with that specific mutation.


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04 Dec 2023, 9:28 pm

You can tell the autistic dogs because they get excited when they see trains...


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Elgee
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04 Dec 2023, 10:23 pm

BillyTree wrote:
That article leaves a lot of questions. Is a dog even a real animal or just a variety of different creatures created by breeding? How do you define a NT dog? What is the equivalent to people's small talk - wag the tail? Or special interests? This Chinese research project sounds like BS to me.


For NT dogs, the equivalent to human NT small talk is when they sniff eachother's asses.



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04 Dec 2023, 10:57 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
BillyTree wrote:
That article leaves a lot of questions. Is a dog even a real animal or just a variety of different creatures created by breeding? How do you define a NT dog? What is the equivalent to people's small talk - wag the tail? Or special interests? This Chinese research project sounds like BS to me.


If the dog has a mutation that's known to produce autism, that seems like a pretty solid reason to assume that the test subject is autistic, just like everything else with that specific mutation.


Thats bizarre reasoning.

The whole point of the experiment is that we dont know if said genes, or if any genes, "cause" autism. We know that some genes show up in autistic humans- correlate- sometimes- but not if they cause. So the point of the experiment is to see if those genes cause autism like symptoms in other mammals. And even the genes did cause autism in humans ...they might not in dogs. So thats another variable.