Picking Up Social Situations Intuitively....

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I don't know. My psychologist said I have rigid thinking, like theory of mind difficulties. In my old school report it reads " she has difficulty getting along with any one but her friends."

I can relate, that natural application of what you pick up from your sociality is just not there...I can observe and monitor and make patterns. But do it? I remember Greentea saying that is it not about understanding many social cues, but to generalise and apply these cues requires an innate and tacit knowledge, which doesn't come easily or naturally, especially when you have to calculate to get it right.

Last edited by blossoms on 13 Feb 2009, 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

I would also add that applying what you observe from these social situations intiutively can be due to a myriad of reasons, if you are socially isolated and have never had the chance to apply what you pick up, then it is understandable that it won't be natural. In other words, in can be due to wiring, but also due to environment. Personally I think it is due to being so inward bent, that the outside world has never been an interest, as in being part of it.

Hopefully Helpful Tips..?

Having contempt for those beneath you in the pecking order is commonplace for NT society. But if you aren't comfortable with that system, then you stay out of it as much as possible and/or attempt to make your own innovations on a win-win basis. Both of these strategies combined are quite effective.

NTs are often very easy to figure out. What makes them tick. What makes them happy. At least in general and for purposes of a superficial aquaintanceship:

NTs thrive on pleasantries. A smile, a wave, saying hello....this is what makes their day. And it takes so very little effort to make them happy. Occasionally more is required... but you have some control over when and how much.

The hard part is playing their games...why would we play a game that we can never win? Well, what they don't tell you [big secret] is that you don't really have to play. It seems like we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. But with so little effort on our part...it doesn't have to be that way. This 'not having to play' seems to be a well-kept secret. We don't play by default--due to being rejected. A win-win innovation, however, is way better. Where we are not forced into sitting on the sidelines, but rather we choose not to play. This also means--we've essentially taken back our power. In terms of a job interview, it is suggested that you voluntarily terminate the interview just slightly ahead of the interviewer...perferably by indicating another job interview to attend. That way you have empowered yourself. It may be seen as a sign of self-confidence. And no matter what happens, you certainly haven't weakened your position.

The other thing about NTs is that most of them don't like struggling to figure things out. So when a person comes along who is terribly confusing to them and therefore difficult to accept, they go....."they're more trouble than their worth. I'm better off devoting my time and attention elsewhere." So they write us off. But it needn't be like that at all..

WHEN YOU MAKE IT EASY ON AN NT, THEY WILL MAKE IT EASY ON YOU. This is The First Law of Survival in an NT World. We were probably taught something along those lines as toddlers and young children....but so much trauma in our later development erased the good instructions..over-riding them with bad code.

When you clearly inform an NT through your body language, a few simple gestures, and choice phrases... that you will refrain--to a great extent--from participating in their social order... they actually appreciate the clarity of your focus. It isn't held against you at all. It is respected. You have just made their life easier. And if you understand how the NT mind works, you will realize that you have done them a huge favor by making their life simpler.

Actually what we usually do is make life a great deal more difficult for the NT. We don't realize we're doing that. But we are. By reversing this scenario, you automatically earn their respect and gratitude. What could be better than that? This is the best possible foundation upon which to build a solid friendship...should it be desired by both parties. You have, in effect, earned the right to be friends... by acknowledging what they want and need.

Getting along with other spectrumites?........if only it were so easy..

Wow, what a great way of putting it! That´s so true.

Great post ManErg, some interesting comments. I would like to answer the following:

In my case, it´s been quite the opposite! I have lived in big cities and small towns, and generally I like cities...(well, part of that is due to my special interest/job, as well as culture). In any case, in big cities, there are more "different types", and you see them all the time, so individuality seems to be more accepted; whereas, in small towns sometimes people make judgments about the behavior of others. In addition to that, I notice that in any small gathering of NTs, the people conglomerate into 1 group, and that group becomes cliquish, so I´m most likely to be an outcast. In a bigger situation, like a job in a big company with more people, the people divide into many smaller groups; this means there are several groups of people to choose from, with most likely 1 of them being a group of "different" people and outcasts, so I can often find a niche. For this reason, I often find big situations surprisingly better. I find somehow I can be more anonymous in a bigger city...(ok, too big is no good, due to sensory issues). I live alone, in a medium sized city. This seems to work well for me, for the above reasons, and I don´t feel at all like I have to be more NT. I often find small towns more intrusive, close-minded and difficult to navigate socially...although, this totally depends on the town, I guess.

But, yeah...old Rome (during its decline) does seem sort of like NT-hood run amok, doesn´t it. Sort of like a giant frat party.

There have been a few comments about refusing to play the pecking order game, so I want to warn people here, and nobody ever said it better than ephemerella. Therefore, although she's not here anymore, apparently, I'm quoting her:

To have a place in the group, you must establish in the minds of each of the group members, what your value is and how you "fit" into the structure. Unfortunately, where you establish your role or fit in the group, is all in the abstract social imaginations of each person and the group as a whole, using the abstract social skills we lack.

Maybe you are the troubleshooter, who fixes things, or the charmer who gets everyone to feel good, or the specialist who does something special for the group like organizes its crayons. But you have to establish and play that role and keep reinforcing it in the social imaginations of others. So you are not only IN a role, when you have a place in the group, but you are constantly called upon to PLAY and ACT to impress that you are in that role, to others. So any time someone talks about troubleshooting, if you are the troubleshooter, you have to make sure you out-talk them, or block their attempts to undermine you, and be able to project (negotiate) "I'm the troubleshooter here" impression. A lot of socializing between NTs is negotiating who is in this role and who is in that role in the group, and constantly testing and undermining or acting out for each other in various poses.

So if you don't have the skills to reinforce in people's social imagination minds that you are the "troubleshooter", they won't recognize you as such, even though they know factually that troubleshooting is your job. If you can't negotiate or convincingly claim any particular role in a group, not even a role as entertainer (class joker or charming guy), you become pointless. You don't exist except as a clinger-on (even if you are really doing important stuff) in the hierarchy and you will get eliminated as soon as someone in the group gets a grudge against you, wants the chair you are sitting in or wants your job.

This is like the "omega" wolf:

"The omega wolf ranks lower than any other wolf. It usually sleeps away from the other pack members and may not engage in much social behavior, like howling or greeting. The other wolves may make a "game" of picking on the omega wolf, biting it and driving it away from food. At other times, the omega may be tolerated or even accepted into group activities. This wolf may be able to eventually work itself back higher in the rank order or it may eventually choose to leave..."

In NT human society, the establishment is all through these conversations and other ways of socially establishing yourself in the hierarchy, at least somewhere, or you fall to the outside (bottom), even if you have a concrete job in the group.

really great post. that's the sort of explanation i can relate to. i'll have to go and look up ephemerella's other stuff now.

Yes, it's also the explanation to why people don't see us on the street or continue walking practically through us.

Totally disagree about this notion, alba. Tried it many many times, what happens is you get the 'if you're not with us, then you must be against us' treatment. You will be treated like an enemy and a threat.

Whatever happened to ephemerella? She wrote such great posts. I really miss her.

Those roles are pretty much the story of my life.
I decided that I wanted to be the "Trouble shooter" quite early on, so my life became this role.

I was a nobody until I decided that I wanted to be somebody.
I had to construct various roles for myself that were in line with my strengths of focussing on surrounding details and detecting flaws in systems.

I could remember and record exactly what dates assignments had been set for, sometimes even better than the teachers. Some folks and teachers were so badly organised, that they took to using me as their secretary .

I managed to get myself accepted into social groups by giving others practical advice and using humour to diffuse the situation. Giving people what they wanted basically. Even so, I was still treated as a periphery member, but a respected and important one.

If someone in the group was "inadvertently threating my position" so to speak, I had to either compete with them or form friendly alliances with them.

If the situation couldn't be resolved, I'd either have to leave or others would force me out and I'd have to look elsewhere. This is one of the reasons why I'm not fussy when it comes to friends: I can't afford to be. I have to "fight my corner" in order to be accepted.

I'm recently a self diagnosed HFA. Just found WP yesterday and am blown away that there are so many other people like me! What a relief! This is a fantastic thread! Haven't finished it yet, but I couldn't wait to respond.

To reply the original question, I think the intuition(at least for me) is directly correlated to the right brain.

Quoted from a website, dyslexia.something. Can't post links yet...

"Visual-spatial learners [right brain] have amazing abilities to 'read' people. Since they can't rely on audition for information, they develop remarkable visual and intuitive abilities, including reading body language and facial expressions."

The second post in this thread by Millie pretty much hit the nail. Glad indeed that I'm not alone.

Cheers,
..SV.. (Frank)

When you tried it many times--did you do it with love and forgiveness--or with fear of being hurt and rejected? The whole body stiffens up when we are afraid of being hurt. One's intent is not to be patronizing or obsequious....but to be equal on all fronts. The idea is to extricate oneself from involvement without making enemies.

sure, it's important not to make enemies, I wonder if your referring to the ideal situation rather than what actually happens in many people's lives.