Asperger's and Dosmetic Violence

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PS. Re lying and manipulative behaviour; that is an odd one. I don't understand that one at all, but then as someone said on another thread, "manipulative behaviour", at least, is what it can look like to someone who knows no better, if you are literally calculating ( with the best possible intentions ) how to handle a social situation/dialogue.

What is interesting is that it is seen as manipulative, because it doesn't work very well! Whereas the worst kind of manipulative behaviour is the kind my co-parent's bank manager uses to sell savings plans, put people in debt, and then sell them personal loans; invisible!

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I've read this blog post slowly and carefully.

The blog posts writer was listing the experiences of the NT women at the support group, she was not saying that all people with AS were abusive, she was saying that this was the experience of these women in relationships with Aspie men.

She also stated that she was trained and worked in the domestic violence field.

She went further to ask questions in the blog about why this was the experience of NT women in relationships with Aspie men. The woman who gave the talk was an Aspie in a relationship with an NT male, this woman said to the group that abuse was not part of a person having AS.

She said later in the blog that she wondered if the 'abusive' actions were caused by a lack of understanding about how relationships work and social difficulties, also not understanding boundaries.

Now, I'm making a guess here, but it seems to me that some are getting fired up and not reading the blog so well.

I still don't see why there's any need to bring AS into the equation. Environmental factors alone would seem enough to explain the bad behaviour......the reaction to an abusive upbringing hasn't been demonstrated to be different to that shown in NTs. The group therapy session from which the list purportedly came isn't evidence of an AS link. It would have been evidence if each wife had spontaneously cited several items on that list, with no prior knowledge of its contents or what the other wives had said. But in an open room, I suspect it's more likely that one of them started the ball rolling and the rest of them joined in. IMHO she's just enshrined the results of a game of "ain't it awful!" She would do well to repeat the experiment under proper scientific conditions - I reckon a control group of pissed-off wives of neurotypicals wouldn't give significantly different results. But instead, she's elected to publish a bullet list of 11 rather nasty traits and she's linked it to Aspies. Shame on her for that.

I thought we were meant to be terrible liars, I know I've had people try to teach me because I was so bad.

Because it helps to understand why some kinds of abuse are happening. She is not saying that all abusers are AS, nor that AS necessarily, or even routinely, leads to being abusive, but that some/certain abusive behaviours may be the result of AS. And that this knowledge can be helpful. Interestingly the association which several people have reacted the most to, ( manipulative behaviour ), as being absolutely unfounded, may in fact be the most useful example; an aspie calculating how to behave/react, with the best of intentions, may be seen as manipulative unless their partner understands how AS works, what it means, and the explanation may help a lot of NTs react less negatively to it.


It is true that if an aspie was not brought up to try and copy and match the NT social norms they might seem less manipulative, because they wouldn't even try to calculate the way they were supposed to react, ( and might be accused of being cold and unloving instead, unless partner understood AS ), so in that sense environment is everything; disability is a social construct after all, but the blog is simply suggesting that many abusive patterns may be the result of stress on AS vulnerabilities, and just because some people have different levels of stress, or react differently to stress does not mean that the underlying cause/fragility which "necessitated" it is not there.


She has not linked domestic abuse with aspies anymore than with any other group; she has suggested that where a partner is AS, abusive behaviour ( if any ) may be the result of AS difficulties with normal/appropriate social interactions, expression and reading of feelings, needs for verbal clarity, etc etc etc and that understanding the underlying difficulties might help NT partners handle the behaviour better. I agree with LostAlien that this blog was not at all offensive, but I am not actually surprised by how fired up some people have got about it, ( the "nothing negative must ever be linked with AS" reaction ).

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^ I still don't get it.....it's not just an emotional response from me, her ideas really do seem to lack anything approaching scientific rigour.

So, maybe now we shouldn't just ask if we ought to have children, but if we ought to marry at all? (Some say we are unlikely to do it, and that the marriages are likely to fail for those few who do it.)

There seems to be many questions about what we ought to or ought not to; questions most people never get.

So maybe I should just take nun vows anyway...

It isn't supposed to be scientific. Just her observations and thoughts.

Having thought about it, I think I agree with you. There is no reason to link them. I was wrong. There is no reason to specify AS as the problem.

Thanks for arguing the point.

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Last edited by ouinon on 27 Nov 2009, 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

She doesn't seem to be aware of the context of her observations, she's just curious because the subject is new to her and she has an interest in both Asperger's and relationships. With time she'll be more sensitive to the s**t flying around and be more careful not to add to it and might become a good resource for people.

There's an interview with the woman who wrote '22 things a woman has to know if she's going to be in a relationship with a man with Asperger's' (or whatever it's called, something like that) on Autism Hangout, she's on the spectrum and is aware of the larger situation. Don't know if the book is any good but it's a more carefully thought out perspective.

I understand that a lot of that is misunderstanding. I have been accused of manipulating when I simply didn't understand the situation. They look at the action with their minds, and don't care to know that our intent was completely different.

I see. I don't think that's what those words meant. They meant that the aspie doesn't let their partner see their friends or family, not that their partner is choosing to not see them. You didn't cut him off with his friends/family.

I think it's his problem he couldn't go alone. I have gone alone to see my family and didn't mind it. My husband had to work so he couldn't come even thought I wished I could bring him but I didn't mind it.

I don't think being bad at lying is an aspie thing because lot of people are bad at lying. How do you think they get caught? How do you think criminals get caught?

I have a question about this article.. I didn't catch a mention of whether the partners of the people in this support group were diagnosed or not. I know I'm the first one to argue that diagnosis isn't a sure thing, and that a self diagnosis can be extremely accurate, but I'm not nearly so sure that a partner's unconfirmed diagnosis can be nearly so accurate. I've noticed a lot of women coming to WP, asking if their self-centered, narcissistic, manipulative significant other may be an undiagnosed aspie. I understand why; of course people want to believe that the reason their partner is acting as though they don't care about them is simply because they're not good at showing it. But a support group of people wanting to believe that isn't exactly a representative sample of partners of people with AS.

Also, a lot of the isolation/neglect stuff can be NT misinterpretations of aspie behavior. A lot of people will interpret "I don't want to do that, but you go ahead and do it yourself" as "You go ahead while I stay here and pout about the fact that you went off without me, and I'll get back at you later by being passive aggressive and nasty." And from a lot of people, that is actually what such a statement would mean. The fact that the aspie would be perfectly happy staying at home perusing a special interest, and relieved that their significant can go enjoy the event themselves, perhaps even delighted to have a bit of alone time, may be kinda lost on the person who is assuming that they're holding a grudge about being left alone. "Cutting off" is relative (no pun intended,) and sometimes more in the mind of the person "being cut off" than the person supposedly doing the cutting off. Or in the mind of someone in the partner's past who actually did get angry at them for doing things themselves.

Bolding by me.

I can see this happening really easily. In fact it might take conscientious effort from both parties to make it not happen. The As partner will say "there is never any subtext in what I say" and the NT partner will agree and perhaps consciously think she/he agrees but that assumption of subtext is a visceral, emotional reaction- not a logical one- and can override the logic with emotion. This disconnect between communication styles in the two people could cause intense pain for both.

If anybody is wondering where this NT assumption of subtext comes from, my personal theory is that it comes from parents. NT parents constantly use subtext with kids in exasperation, anger or as intentional guilt-tripping. I must admit I've even done it sometimes with my own autistic daughter to absolutely no effect because naturally she doesn't get the subtext. Then I shake my head at my own follishness for quoting my own mom's subtext-filled words in exasperation but having your own parents' words pop out of your mouth is a common parenting phenomenon, especially when parent and child are both NT.
That's why it's so emotional instead of logical. It triggers feelings of subtext-filled comments from mom and dad.

For example, The NT parent says to the NT child, "look at how this trash barrel is overflowing" and actually means "this trash barrel is overflowing despite the many times I have asked you to empty it- obviously you never listen to me because you are a bad kid". The kid, who is NT, accurately hears all the subtext and is filled with shame, anger and hurt. The kid grows up and marries an AS spouse. The AS spouse says the exact same thing one day and means nothing other than that it is full. But buried feelings of shame, anger and hurt come flooding back to the NT spouse who hears all of mom's subtext from long ago in this comment. Any AS posters married (or formerly married) to NT spouses know exactly what happens next.

Last edited by Janissy on 27 Nov 2009, 3:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

my relationships i had pre-diagnosis were relationships where i can see alot of this stuff had happened. now post-diagnosis i have just refused trying.