Autism and Asperger syndrome underdiagnosed in women

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Hethera
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08 Feb 2010, 12:45 am

pandd wrote:
Hethera wrote:
So, here's my only thing: Is it possible to have AS without routines or sensory aversions?

Well sensory aversions are not a diagnostic criteria item (I personally believe everyone with an ASD probably has some kind of sensory anomally, but that this does not necessarily take the form of an aversion and is not necessarily detectable to all effected persons).

So far as I can recall off the top of my head, the criteria sub-set that refers to routines includes three items and only one item of the three needs to be present for the sub-set to be met (so yes, it is possible to meet the criteria without routines).


Interesting. I should probably look into this more. I had always assumed after my ADHD diagnosis that I had some really aberrant kind of ADHD (because I'm meticulous in my work and compulsively punctual). And the Straterra really did help with my being able to block out noise during classes and also helped me follow conversations and not get sidetracked when doing stuff I don't enjoy.

So, dumb question -- would a sensory anomaly include a ridiculously high pain threshold? I enjoy extremely (like, PAINFULLY) spicy foods and it also takes a lot of pain for me to flinch. My dad didn't me believe I'd broken my arm when I was young, because I told him very calmly after being thrown off my bike that I needed to go to the hospital because my arm was broken. He wouldn't take me until Mom pointed out that I was white as a sheet, even though I told him that I felt and heard it snap. But I hadn't read of this being consistent with ASD (or anything else, for that matter). If that's a sensory anomaly, I think I know where my kiddo got his AS. :P



pandd
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08 Feb 2010, 1:32 am

Hethera wrote:

Interesting. I should probably look into this more. I had always assumed after my ADHD diagnosis that I had some really aberrant kind of ADHD (because I'm meticulous in my work and compulsively punctual).

Attention is usually effected by AS so it is not inconsistent with AS to have received a prior ADHD diagnosis. ADHD technically (according to the DSM) is not supposed to be comorbid to AS because problems with attention are considered to occur "in the course" of AS. Some physicians will diagnose ADHD with AS though because sometimes it is helpful to treat the ADHD as a separate condition where it is particularly impairing.

Quote:
And the Straterra really did help with my being able to block out noise during classes and also helped me follow conversations and not get sidetracked when doing stuff I don't enjoy.

Unless everyone else in class is getting distracted by those same noises, while it may be an ADHD problem, it is not impossible that you are distracted because of sensory anomalies (specifically problems with "filtering out" irrelevant audio stimulus).

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So, dumb question -- would a sensory anomaly include a ridiculously high pain threshold?

That is not a dumb question, and the answer is yes, a ridiculously high pain threshold would constitute a sensory anomally.

Quote:
I enjoy extremely (like, PAINFULLY) spicy foods and it also takes a lot of pain for me to flinch. My dad didn't me believe I'd broken my arm when I was young, because I told him very calmly after being thrown off my bike that I needed to go to the hospital because my arm was broken. He wouldn't take me until Mom pointed out that I was white as a sheet, even though I told him that I felt and heard it snap. But I hadn't read of this being consistent with ASD (or anything else, for that matter). If that's a sensory anomaly, I think I know where my kiddo got his AS. :P

I have a vague recollection that I recently read an article suggesting that AS is probably more commonly inherited maternally (through the mother's line).



Hethera
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08 Feb 2010, 1:58 am

Thanks, pandd!! Your answers were very helpful. :)



Michhsta
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08 Feb 2010, 6:48 pm

Quiet, reflective kid with moments of blazing performances to Michael Jackson in my living room.

Fearful, ostracised, obsessed with science, taught myself to read at the age of 3.

Well mannered, robotic, monotonic.

Warm, unaffectionate, caring, LOVE animals.

In teenagehood......angry, misaligned, dissociative, aggressive, fearful, extremely anxious, quiet, introverted.

In Adulthood (21).......dx with Borderline personality disorder, schizoaffective, traits of Post Traumatic Stress.....

Now at 36(with shiny new shrinks :wink:) .......AS with psychometric testing to see where on the spectrum with testing for ADD/ADHD(inattentive type).

Autism is in my family.

Mics


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hale_bopp
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09 Feb 2010, 12:54 am

My parents were told by a teacher when I was 4 that I had autistic traits.

I was let go through my childhood because I was able to mask my traits reasonably well and it drained my energy, also I did not react to bullying so my parents didn't know it was happening and no stink was kicked up.

I never had any learning difficulties, Always near the top of my class in all academic fields, my only problems were social, and no teachers back then gave a flying f**k tbh. They just thought I was a "selfish rude little girl" to quote one.. not that I recall ever doing anything selfish.

I think its EXPECTED in boys, so they LOOK for it in boys. The only reason I was diagnosed at all was because I got severely mentally ill when I hit puberty.



earthmom
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09 Feb 2010, 1:51 am

mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Does anyone know why exactly women tend to be better at masking their symptoms? I'd love to know.


I've read that since girls are more clannish they stick together and help each other more. So one quirky girl would get a little nudge or help from the other girls, where the quirky boy would stand alone.

I think in some cases that makes sense.

I've been thinking about this last part and not sure where to add it so it might as well be here - many times the stories I read about autistic kids just make the assumption that the parents are NTs. You always seen the movie or the story begin with mom and dad, or just mom, in a doctor's office and The NEWs gets dropped that the kid is autistic. Then you see how they dealt, how they supported, what programs they got the kid into or what things they did to compensate for the lack of programs, etc.

My situation was a mom and dad who were messed up themselves. I'm sure my mother is Asperger in addition to many other issues, has been clinically depressed all of my life, and she was physically and emotionally abused by my father. She stayed with him and they both abused us kids physically, mentally, emotionally.

I don't think I've yet to see the combination of dealing with being Asperger's while having such an insane asylum for a homelife to also deal with.

My parents didn't know I was Asperger because frankly they didn't care. No one looked at me or tried to help me - there were four kids, I was the youngest, and their relationship had collapsed to the point of full on war by the time I was the last kid at home. I was an after thought. The only time they dealt with me was to punish or make it very clear what a waste of human being I was and that I would never amount to anything.

My father was alcoholic so no surprise that I turned to drugs, and as a teen I was taken one time to a psychiatrist so he could "set me straight". He interviewed me alone, then them alone, and his conclusion was that I was okay. It was really disappointing to me because apparently by comparison to them, I looked fine. And went merrily on undiagnosed.

Ran away from home at 17 and the world was just awful - everything was so chaotic, nothing made sense. I wouldn't wish that sort of mayhem on anyone much less on an Aspie.

But then I totally digress.


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FrogGirl
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09 Feb 2010, 2:08 am

what frusterates me is that I live in the U.S. and most of the research on females is done in the UK. It took many years for the term ASpergers to reach the US from when it was realized in the UK. I believe it was 1995, and it wasn't until recently for the acknoledgement of women with Aspergers. It took 34 years for my diagnosis, and it took my oldest son being diagnosed with it for me to finally seek out an assessment.



millie
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09 Feb 2010, 2:22 am

pandd wrote:
mechanicalgirl39 wrote:
Does anyone know why exactly women tend to be better at masking their symptoms? I'd love to know.

I believe a number of factors are involved.
Females as a rule, apparently tend to develop faster in areas particularly effected by ASDs. If someone fails to take this into account and compares a female in one of these areas to the general population or a male with AS, then the measurement is gender-biased and fails to take into account the need to make such comparisons between comparible people. We would not compare a 4 year old to 6 year olds to determine if they are developmentally matched to their peers, and since gender does correlate with a number of differnences in areas relevant to ASDs we need to compare a female to her gender matched age-peers to determine if she is developing comparibly with her peers in any area where there is reason to suspect or expect gender based differences.

It may be that females (be it due to innate qualities or the way society treats people according to gender, or an admixture of these things) expend more effort attempting to "fit in" and adapt.

It does seem that there might be some gender based influence on responses (be these the result of innate differences or the result of society treating people differently on the basis of gender expectations) to frustrations and impairments associated with ASDs, with boys apparently being more likely to respond in a disruptive manner that gets attention and strongly motivates attempts to find out what is going on, whereas females may be more inclined to respond in ways that do not get such attention and that might even be considered "desirable" from the point of view of adult care givers (for instance being quiet and cooperative and stringently following rules while becomming increasingly withdrawn is less likely to generate a decisive response than being loud and physically disruptive in class). Even when boys respond this way, it is still more likely to "stand out" as there is a societal expectation that boys behave a certain way and a different set of expectations for girls. So when a girl becomes withdrawn it may just be seen as her being "a quiet girl" but when a boy becomes withdrawn this might "ring"
more "alarm bells" in the minds of observers.

The criteria and most literature has been formed around males and their traits. There is reason to suspect that gender may influence a number of these things, (such as the content of special interests) so that making assumptions about likely content of such interests on the basis of reports predominately or exclusively about males, skews assumptions about the content of special interests so that the kinds of interests more likely to occur in respect of females are often dismissed (as possible ASD related interests) out of hand due to not meeting expectations and assumptions about content.


IT would be great if you communicated some of this to Simon Baron-Cohen. :lol:
He's finally started actually doing some research on women and girls....let's hope he doesn't have us all pinned down as maths fiends......