Self diagnoses = "fake AS?"

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I think you're too worried about people seeing you as a "fake". Self-diagnosers are obviously accepted here by the majority. At least, I don't see anyone attacking you without the topic being brought up first unless troll. There seems to be a topic about it everyday on the main page, it's wearying.

I kind of miss the point sometimes, and didn't really care at first, but


I don't really have an opinion of you to begin with, other than your previous acceptance with self-diagnosing yourself was dumb. I know nothing else about you. You'd just be another autistic on here.

Okay, okay. Sorry.

This isn't the first time I've done this. I feel like I'm talking to one of my sons right now, and that's important. It's important because my son HAS AS, and YES, it IS diagnosed. For three years now. My wife and I began to suspect it ten years ago. The fact that this reminds me of taking with him should be obvious. He's got AS too, and he drives me NUTZ sometimes with his logic.

It isn't his fault. He's only twelve now, and hasn't learned to adapt at all.

I do NOT mean to compare you guys to a twelve year old Aspie. Please don't think that.

What I do see that's comparable though, is the way I'm reacting right now, to all of you. And that comes from my own brand of AS. NO, it's NOT an excuse! It's a reason. I do sometimes make huge messes of things, then have to clean up afterward, in attempts to understand things that baffle me.

Consider this a "clean up effort."

I AM baffled, but I don't mean to accuse anyone of anything. I'm honestly trying like the dickens to understand something that seems to be going right over my head. I sometimes have certain expectations for responses, and when the expectations aren't met, it frustrates me, and I say stupid things (go ahead, you CAN call me stupid now! ), without realizing it until a few minutes later. I know I could go back and "clean up" some of the above posts, but I won't because I don't want to hide who I am, for better or worse, the good the bad, and the ugly.

I really would like some answers to some of the questions I asked though. I really would.

If anyone has the time or cares to...

A few years ago, there be people here who say lot of people here don't have AS and there be people questioning our diagnoses. It used to bother me because I be worried if they also thought I was a fake and I was diagnosed then. But people were still questioning our diagnoses.

Now I don't care anymore.

I think maybe because so many spend so much time on Autism/Asperger web sites that they have the idea that the rest of the world thinks its cool because its so built up and accepted on these sites.
Out in the real world people DO NOT think Asperger's is cool. When I was first diagnosed and I told some people I know it was met with pity "Im really sorry".....I get the same when I tell people that my kids are Autistic.....or embarrassment, they dont know what to say.
Im sorry for you guys who think that Asperger's is so cool that people go around faking it, that is just not true. I know there are a few people out there who pretend to have AS so they can mess with your head, Ive seen them here, but there are people like that on the internet. I think most of the people who are "self diagnosed" have just realized that they finally fit. Its not cool and trendy...its a disorder!
When I was first diagnosed I was happy that I finally knew but then I went through a kind of grief process and it was depressing. Now I am more comfortable in my own skin and I know why I do the things I do and why I feel the way I feel. Im on a voyage of self discovery in my 40's. Still I have to struggle just as I always have, now I just have a name for it.
I think its just silly to try to make Autism into some exclusive club or something. Its not the end of the world...but its not cool either.

Okay, you seem very accepting, as I have seen in several other posts. You do mention a point though, that sums up the attitude Self-DS = fake. And no, I don't mean you think that, but that it sums up the attitude for those that have the attitude:

"When you get a DX, you don't have to worry about people being against the self diagnosed or saying they are all fakes because you be a real aspie..."

That sums up the attitude I'm talking about (that I don't think you have). But it makes NO sense!

With that logic, if I self diagnose, I'm a fake, but then if I GET a diagnosis, suddenly I'm NOT fake! For that to be true, it would mean that today I don't have AS, but a few months from now, I will.

Surely we all know enough about AS to know that you don't develop in later in life!

If I come back in a few months WITH a diagnosis, then it means, I have it now, and I'm NOT a fake!

I'm Not really concerned so much with others thinking I'm fake. I'm a lot more thick skinned than I may seem on parts of this thread. I don't really give a rip what anyone thinks for my own sake. What bothers me, is not concern for me, but concern for those who sell themselves short by judging others, especially with such faulty logic. They are alienating people who could be their friends!

Look, I'm almost fifty now. I've lived with AS all of my life, and only truly became aware of it about three years ago. I've adapted all of my life, mostly by faking it, and usually not very well.

Here, and on some other forums, I occasionally see Aspies making the same mistakes I made when I was not so much younger. Judging people was probably one of my biggest faults, and still is so some extent. It's like watching my own sons causing friendships to destruct, or prevent them from developing, and it hurts to watch it. I care about people, whether they want me to or not doesn't matter to me. If you care enough about many, a few might listen.

People who judge others seal doors shut that haven't even been opened to them yet. I know. I've done it many MANY times.

Turn away those who may one day be proven to be just like you, and they aren't likely to accept you even then.

I'm just trying to open a few eyes is all.

I like this statement! It can be hard to remember, especially on the internet where you often only see one side of people.

I've been on lots of forums over the years for other DX'd things that I had, related to Asperger's or not. I've worked as a moderator and forum owner, and so I know how annoying it is when people fake something to get attention, whether they are faking being a part of what the community shares or something else. As a forum owner/mod, I especially hated how those people took away from the discussion amongst the "serious" people.

All this almost kept me from joining this forum because so far I am self DX'd with Asperger's. I also share some of Mr Xxx's thoughts about depending upon the opinion of NTs when diagnosing. If it weren't for my caring and very worried mom who researched it without me knowing, I wouldn't have found this out for another 25 years, if ever. And now that I have been doing research almost 24/7 for a week, which includes reading a lot of these threads and what people have to say about various issues, I still feel confident that whether or not I am officially DX'd I have found a place where I fit in. I believe that posers/fakers show themselves sooner or later and it becomes clear over time who really identifies with a community.

This is all just IMHO, based on my experiences with a small community online. I'm new here and still have to learn the lay of the land, so please feel free to take it with a HUGE grain of salt

Hope this thread doesn't have to deteriorate further


Essentially, any label, be it "professionally diagnosed" / "Self-diagnosed" / "undiagnosed" is just a simplification... none of them are adequate in the exploration of the traits on the spectrum.

Diagnosis is just what the outside uses to describe what they feel to be "clinically significant".
If they feel someone is "different enough" then a diagnosis is made.
It's just a tool that bureaucratic society needs to properly "control" the situation of people being different. I think of it like the "minority" label. It's just pointless, except in the scope of how society chooses to deal with differences.

Any person who comes to this community and feels that they could benefit by exploring what's known about spectrum traits and talents deserves to have support here. No one deserves to use "self-diagnosed" as a point of exclusion or suspicion. Any reasonable person who is actually searching for real self improvement would be able to seek it by becoming acquainted with the FACTS published by known experts, as well as the experiences of others, and would be able to leverage their own reason to avoid using traits/labels as excuses for stupid behavior. Instead of making excuses for exclusion or self-stagnation they would be able to learn and grow wiser about themselves.

All of that said, I am in full agreement with the original poster's dissection of the poor logic of anyone trying to use the label of self-diagnosed to discredit or exclude.
Honestly, I think the label self-diagnosed is stupid, as stupid as the idea of clinically diagnosed. If you have traits, you have traits. No one can tell you who you are but your own self.

Not all of us who have these traits had the opportunity to have good support while growing up. I'd imagine most coming here now who are undiagnosed but recognize the essential traits are seeking to learn from the community who have had that type of perspective, the kind of self-lucidity required to really learn effective strategies. We're just barely gaining that level of lucidity. No person has the right to discredit another who is coming from this newly-lucid perspective.

Yeah, I get what you're saying for sure. It must be "big fish- small pond" sort of thing, because if you think about it, WP isn't really that big a site, yet according to everyone I've talked to, it's "the place" for Aspies. Yet 36,000 + members isn't really all that many when you consider how many AS DX'd people there are out there. Only a very small percentage are here, and if you take away all that are self DX-d, that percentage is very small. It's an easy place to "make a name" and establish a presence. Nobody makes you prove you really have AS, so I'm sure there are quite a lot that actually don't have it. AS is a very easy thing to think you have.

It took me over two years after knowing about this stie to actually sign up here, because I read a lot of postings here, and could tell it's a fairly tight-knit community. I already knew about the controversies here, and knew I would get some of the reactions I'm getting to this post. None of it is too surprising.

But suppose that a third of the membership here is self diagnosed improperly. That's 12,000 (just for the sake of argument) fake Aspies. Now suppose there are another 100, or 50, or even just 1, self DX'd person here. Is it really the best way to deal with the fakes by brushing them, and the real ones with the same brush?

We all know it's not right.

What?! ! Not me! I'm perfect!

Sometimes a perfect ass!

(I almost missed this - Thanks for picking it up Alex-M!)

I love salt. I take everything, on and off the internet, with lots of salt! I totally agree that posers don't really need any pointing out. They'll reveal themselves over time. They invariably end up tripping themselves up the same way all liars and fakers to.

That's exactly why I prefer never to delete anything I write, unless it was really stupid and hurtful, which I admit I've had to do a few times, but not for quite a long time now. I prefer to let people see me as I am, and it often ends up revealing things about myself to myself when I read it later.

Cool that you feel at home already!

I read a study once ... I've been trying to find it again since I had a copy of it in my notes and lost everything with a computer crash last month.

Anyway, the study was done by a major diagnostic clinic and they found that of those who had self-diagnosed with asperger's and then come to the clinic for professional verification, only 20% were clinically diagnosable as actually having asperger's.

So you're likely quite right about it being "a very easy thing to think you have."

I see a lot of strong evidence that many people who feel outcast or alienated for other reasons latch on to the asperger's label for a variety of reasons. Despite that, I choose to take people here at face value. If someone says they have it, I accept that they have it. If someone says that they think they have it, I accept that they believe it's highly likely they have it and thus I accept that they have it. I do this for two reasons:

1. I value the right of individuals to self-identify as they prefer. I developed this value when several women kept trying to force the "feminist" label on me and I didn't want that label. They kept pointing out things I think and things I do that made them believe I was a feminist and finally I said, "does feminism accept the right of the individual to self-identify?" and they said, "yes! absolutely!" so I said, "then I self-identify as not-a-feminist." And ever since then I've seen great value in allowing people to define themselves and acecpting them as the identity they have chosen to put forth in the world. It doesn't really matter what *I* think someone is. I believe in treating others as they would like to be treated (so long as it doesn't abuse, demean, or injure me in any way) and so I accept those who say "I have self-diagnosed asperger's" as people with asperger's.

2. I gain nothing positive from challenging others' self-identities. If someone wanted to identify as me and use my credit cards, I would gain something positive from challenging that: I would (hopefully) stop someone from identity theft and the ensuing financial theft that tends to go along with it. But what do I have to gain from declaring some of us "real aspies" and some of us "fake aspies"? (Not that I particularly care for the word "aspie", but anyway . . . ) All I really have to gain from it is lots of social conflict and general unpleasantness.

There are times when it might be valuable to have some sort of winnowing tool for purposes of discerning more about the condition, but fort hat I tend to just turn to academic studies. They're crude and often misinterpret us, but they have a lot of useful information about people who are strongly enough traited to be clinically diagnosable and so that's where I turn for that sort of information. Mainly, I'm here to socialize and pick up on "what's new in the world of autism" (although there are a few particular blogs I am more likely to go to for the latter) In the autistic community, this is sort of a big coffeehouse of autism. When I want something more specialized, I go to other places that are much smaller but more highly focused on particular things. In the big coffeehouse of autism, there's really no point in playing "I'm autistic-er than you" games. And in some ways, the real aspie/fake aspie game is just that.

If you look closely, I think it's developing fairly well, not deteriorating at all. Thanks in no small part to your own contribution.




Perfectly put. I couldn't have said it better. Oh yeah, I tried too, and it wasn't nearly this eloquent and succinct. But then, I am never succinct.

But that's because I have AS!

(It's a JOKE people! Don't be sending me hate mail! )

Exactly. Figuring it out finally put a name to what I have been coping with my entire life. And yes, I am self-diagnosed, and that's enough for me.



Ditto.



All very true. Anyone wishing to explore this further (the topic of control in society by labeling "different" groups of people) should take a look at the works of Anthony Giddens and Emile Durkheim. I read them both in one of my Crim J classes--what an eye-opener that was!



Everything in bold above describes exactly how I feel. IMO, if you really feel that you have AS, you are probably right.

My realization of it allows me to recognize those behaviors/traits that can cause social difficulties and take steps to compensate for them.

There's something to be said for official diagnoses in the case of some disorders. For example, it is important to differentiate paranoid delusions caused by schizophrenia from similar symptoms caused by a brain tumor or drug overdose. Finding out the CAUSE is essential in that case because it can then be treated correctly, With ASD's, no one really knows the "cause" anyway (and there is no "treatment" in the form of drugs or surgery) so what does an "official" diagnosis really do? Not much, except (perhaps) be useful for insurance purposes (though from what I hear, it's usually more of a hindrance than a help).

I'm not here to prove anything to anyone. I am here because I finally figured out that there is a name for the condition that has made me different my entire life: Asperger's. Knowing this has helped me find a group of people with whom I identify, which has been very rare (to non-existent) most of my life.

It's not a "club," it's not being in some "elite" group, but it's not anything to be ashamed of, either. It is what it is. Knowing yourself means knowing what you "have" and, more importantly, what you "are."

I don't need anyone else to tell me either one.

Great post overall. So many good points that could cause me to respond in yet another lengthy post, but I do that enough I think so I only pulled these two points out, the second of which, in terms of AS, is probably, I think, the most pertinent.

One of the hardest things for any Aspie to learn is to do something, or adopt a way of thinking that involves gain for others but not for oneself. Some of us never learn it. I, sadly, but admittedly, still struggle with it.

With my own kid's struggles in school, I frequently have to help them approach problems with their compliance to school rules and expectations by getting them to realize what they have to gain from it, or that there is nothing positive to gain from "bucking the system."

I hope at least some who do judge those who self diagnose, will see at some point there is nothing in it for them. It doen't make us go away. It doesn't change anything. It doesn't stop those of us who do it from doing it. It never will.

If only ONE person figures that out from reading this, or another thread like it, then starting conversations like this isn't for nothing. I have nothing to gain from it, and I'm sure there are those who will use that statement as "evidence" that I must be a fake, because I'm NOT doing this for my own agenda. Well, maybe I am, because I don't want my Aspie kids growing up to be judgmental, but even that's not for me, that's for them. I'd hate for them to be influenced by attitudes like that.

Last edited by MrXxx on 14 Jun 2010, 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

If someone tells me they have social difficulties, I take their word for it.

I walk a lonely path. If I happen upon another traveler, they must be walking it to. How horrible would I be to turn my own people away?

Great post. I agree with most of what you've written, but I especially like the above passage.

Refusal to accept self-diagnosis is also unfair to those who cannot access the official diagnosis. Some folks don't have family doctors, or access to specialists, or money to pay for treatment. Some folks don't have access to the variety of diagnostic tools we've used (online quizzes, peer-reviewed literature, memoirs/posts written by officially DX'd Aspies) because they don't have a computer or can't speak English or another language in which that info is available. Those are some other reasons I respect the views of those who are self-DX'ed, regardless of my own status.