Body language can be misinterpreted by NTs

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But intentionally missing the cue is not.

In that case I don't see it as an aspie thing and I see it as a human thing and take that less seriously for autism.

I get confused too sometimes when something is made an aspie thing but yet NTs do it too so I wonder what's the difference between us and them doing it? Sometimes I think doctors just make things aspie things.

It's like when they say ''Aspies find it difficult to put themselves in other people's shoes'', but NTs also find it difficult to put themselves in Aspie's shoes. It's blatently obvious. If NTs could put themselves in my shoes, I would be more understood, less shunned, and would have got a job by now (after 3 years of being unemployed).

It's mainly the self-centered NTs that do this. But it's more like they miss it on purpose because of the misconception that they think they're more important that anyone else around them. I'm sure we've all seen our share in this category. "Don't worry, it's all about them. They're more important," as my sister -in-law would say. The only thing worse than their social abilities is their driving skills (ie ownership of the road, and they can do no wrong).

autistic traits are human traits, they arent things that only autistics do. just because something is typically seen in autistics doesnt mean NTs dont do it also. NTs miss non-verbal cues. some of them toe-walk, or have delayed speech. some NTs have obsessive interests, lack the desire to socialize, are rigid or literal thinkers. the difference is usually in the severity, frequency, and collection of traits.

just because someone is not autistic doesnt make them perfect at social interaction or even "normal". neurotypical, if used to mean anything other than non-autistic, is just a stereotype that the majority of non-autistics dont even fit into.

It's traits they've observed in autistic people at a higher frequency than traits observed in people who are not autistic.

The problem is this idea that a behavior or trait must be EITHER autistic OR neurotypical and if it's one then it cannot be the other. However, a lot of things autistic people do, NTs do too. The difference is that many of these things - used to identify autistic spectrum disorders - happen at a much higher frequency than they do with neurotypicals, or with greater severity. Also, many autistic traits are also traits observed in other conditions. Flat or muted affect, for example, happens with schizoid personality disorder, schizophrenia, post-traumatic stress disorder, depression, and no doubt others I am forgetting about now. This does not mean that flat affect is not an autistic trait. It means that it is not strictly an autistic trait.

So the fact that an NT does something has no bearing on whether that can be an autistic trait. I've seen NTs jump up and down and flap their hands, I've seen them complain about bright lights and loud noises, I've seen them misread other people, make social mistakes, engage intensely with their interests, lose track of time, have difficulty with organization, repeat phrases they've just heard, repeat themselves, inflict self-injury, watch the same movie or listen to the same song repeatedly, take things literally, and on and on and on.

It's like ADHD - every symptom in ADHD is something that everyone experiences occasionally - this is one of the reasons why a lot of people don't understand it or take it seriously. "Everyone loses things sometimes, or gets distracted, or acts impulsively." The thing about ADHD is that the people who have it experience these things far more frequently to a more severe degree. This is what happens with autistic traits - we experience these things more frequently to a more severe degree.

So - when it comes to some of these topics, people are talking about more severe versions of what NTs might experience - like light or sound sensitivity, touch sensitivity, not understanding nonverbal communication, having intense interests that take up one's life, and so on, people are usually placing this in contrast to non-autistic people who may have similar traits.

Another difference is that while NTs might display a few of these traits, autistic people display a lot of them. So even if another NT has as much difficulty with daylight as I do, it is not very likely that said NT also flaps their hands, doesn't spend much time around other people, needs to have fans or some other background white or pink or whatever noise to drown out more distinct and distracting background noises, and very likely is able to live on their own and hold down a job.

I hope that clarifies why some things are described as autistic traits even though NTs might do them too.

There are also the people who try to link unrelated things to autism (like some physical features, for example - although some physical features do occur more frequently with autistic people).

And then there are things that are not themselves strictly a feature of autism but are more likely to occur along with autism - like gender variance and gender nonconformity. Neither of these are (as far as I know) autistic traits, but a lot of autistic people do seem to have them.

Having an obsessive nature has never caused you to talk too long on a subject even though you know others are not fully interested? I know when I'm giving an explanation I have this mental need to explain all the logical details even though I know most people don't have the same appreciation for rigor that I do.

I have never picked up on people are not interested and I have asked them if they get tired of it and they said no so I continue. If I picked up on they were not interested, I would have stopped. But even if I didn't stop because I was too focused on it, that be the AS but me ignoring the cue is not AS.

This is something I don't like about autism, the double standards. An NT does something aspie but they chose to do that. An aspie does it too and chose to do it that too but whoops it's the AS that caused it but what about the NT? Their AS trait that caused it? I think people just easily blame things on our condition and so do we. I have pointed this out since I was 15 when people were doing that to me and they still do it so that is another reason why I don't tell anyone. I have even challenged it too by asking what's the difference between me doing it and everyone else.

My mom once pointed out to me how it's my Asperger's that I want everyone to put their dirty dishes in the dishwasher when it's unloaded. If it's loaded I wanted them to put them in the sink and mom was telling me how my brothers just ignore me and said it's my Asperger's that I want it done that way. But when I lived with my aunt and uncle, my aunt had the same rule about dishes too just like I did when I lived with my parents. Except my aunt is NT. So I think my mom was using my AS as a scrapegoat since NTs are like that too. Even back then I thought it was BS what she told me. What if a parent had that same rule for her kids? Asperger's? Even if the parent did happen to have it, I still doubt it be the AS.


It's like this. Lot of people take this literal when someone says they would "beat" their kids but really they mean spanking. People read it and think the parent meant it literally. Okay an aspie reads that too and takes it literal and everyone blames it on their AS when NTs take it literal too, lot of them in fact. Okay that isn't AS then. That's normal. Child abuse is something people take seriously, even when someone jokes about it.

I agree with you 100 percent, and this is what I've been trying to say all along when I do make points about what NTs do that is similar to Autistics. It's like I know an NT who complains all the time about itchy clothes, and cannot wear certain clothes because it feels really uncomfortable, and she cuts out all the tags in every item of clothing she buys. But that's the only thing she does what is common in Autistics. She doesn't stim, or have difficulty socialising, or anything else that comes typical for most Autistics. And there are plenty of other people who share at least one extreme trait with Autistics, the same as typical Autistics can share one or two NT traits (there is actually a topic on ''what NT traits do you have?''). I have a few NT traits, but I'm still a typical Aspie.

It's like with forgetting. Everybody forgets things. It's natural and human to forget things sometimes. We all do, whoever we are. But that doesn't mean we've all got Dementia. Extreme forgetting, and forgetting things that one hasn't really forgot before in life, is something that should be assessed and diagnosed. But little things, like for example, if somebody was going to pick up a brocure from the post office while they were in the town but then came home and realised they had forgot, that is just genuine. But if somebody planned to walk up the town just to pick up a brocure and nothing else, and they got all the way there and forgot, then came home and still could not remember, then there could be a problem. Well, everybody has probably done this once in their life, but if these sorts of things happen frequently then the advice is to go up the doctors and be seen. But then again, symptoms of another disorder can be related to a lot of stress or pressure of anxiety.

Verdandi, what you was saying is so true, and is what I've been trying to say before, but I probably don't explain things as clearly.

But what if someone with ADD or ADHD doesn't lose stuff often because they keep their things together and always make sure they have everything. What if they keep things in the same spot and always keep things in their purse or always pack things ahead of time before going? So that makes them forget things sometimes like if they were in a rush or having a bad day or an off day for some reason because their brain decided to go ADD lol. Would it still be because of their ADD if they forgot something or marked off as normal since it doesn't happen often enough? This is where the confusion comes in.
But if someone with ADHD got distracted by someone texting in the theater, I wouldn't blame that on their ADHD because normal people get distracted by that stuff too.


What if someone with autism doesn't say lot of inappropriate things because they often don't talk. They wait until people know them better and they don't say much to people who don't know them. So that when people do get to know them, they don't misinterpret them. Then they do say the wrong things sometimes, would that still be the autism that did it? After all everyone says the wrong things.
Also when I was pregnant, someone with AS told me "You're big" but on Babycenter, I have seen posts by women bitching about comments they get about their tummy about how huge they are and stuff. So what the aspie said to me I marked off as normal. But I bet if the aspie made that comment to those women about their tummies and they knew about his AS, I bet they blame his comment on it. But yet if a normal person did it, they mark them off as stupid because they didn't know they were "being rude" or mark them off as rude and not caring. Uh why can't they give those other people the same treatment they would give an aspie? After all NTs make those mistakes too right? So why not just take it personally and call it a social awkward moment? They can't blame it on the AS if the NT doesn't have it so I am calling it a social awkward moment or maybe call it a aspie trait. But if it weren't for Babycenter, I wouldn't have known women get offended with how big their bellies and I still don't understand why it's so offensive. But now that I know it offends women, I know better about making those comments. Maybe those people know it offends but say them anyway and an aspie wouldn't know that? So that would mean if an aspie makes those comments and they full well know women get offended by them, it's not their AS then.

Things are based on how often things happen right?


Things I see people do aspies would do, maybe it's a trait they have or maybe it's something they don't do often or it seems like they do it often because I am seeing different people doing it, not the same person. Or maybe they have something else that causes them to mimic the trait?

I agree that we all have mixed traits.

Very often I see that people misunderstand each other and me and that people e.g. are secretly annoyed about each other because of this. Therefore I believe that pointing out lack of ToM to be a typical AS trait as plain wrong.
How many times has a person given me a reaction that makes me understand that he/she thinks I think... The same amount of time I have been rolling my eyes. NTs can be so lacking ToM that it hurts!! !

I believe the neurology is different in a way that I cant be satisfied with superficialities while most people are caught up in semiskilled problems which distract us from reality, and which I consider to be a waste of time.

Yeah, I think it's really ironic that I have been misreading your intent here all this time, because I am coming from the same place, and thinking you meant the opposite.



All true. Anxiety c



Thank you. I will keep this in mind the next time I interpret what you're saying as backwards from this - miscommunication on an aspie forum. Who knew? As far as it goes, I am probably just as likely to misread.



Well, there are 18 symptoms in two categories of nine each in the DSM-IV that can point to a diagnosis of ADHD, and you only need six from one of those categories to be diagnosed with it.

I also know people (myself included) who tend not to lose stuff often because they've developed fairly rigid systems to insure that that everything is always in the correct spot and keep everything from getting lost. I still lose things, but not as badly as I used to.

But I think this is more hung up on the specific symptoms I used as an example than on the general idea. What I meant was that certain things are much more likely to happen to people who have ADHD than they are to people who do not, even if they both experience the same things. That doesn't mean anyone is likely to say it was their ADHD that made them forget things (but they might - I usually don't say my ADHD made me do anything, I just get frustrated with myself and apologize, and sometimes I make jokes about it).



In essence. If you stim, but don't stim enough to contribute to impairment, then it's not a trait. If you have intense interests, but they don't impair you, it's not a trait. If you do have those to an impairing degree, they can count toward a diagnosis, but you need enough traits along with those two (four more for autism or PDD-NOS) to qualify for a diagnosis. Or only two social traits for AS.



Maybe, it's possible. Sometimes I don't know if my constant stimming (typical autistic stims like flapping, finger flicking, rocking, sensation-seeking etc) is affected by my ADHD (and my accompanying restlessness) - that is, if I didn't have the ADHD, would I stim as much? I don't know. I'm pretty sure it's caused by autism.

As far as it goes, I do say inappropriate things and sometimes latch onto something with extreme stubbornness, and while I feel that this happens because I am autistic, I usually blame myself and apologize for being a jerk.

I kind of wonder at times if identifying these traits is primarily useful for us to talk to each other and express common experiences, and then primarily useful to diagnosticians so they can find the appropriate label to describe our difficulties, and then beyond that, I really do not know.