Before I started to read about AS

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Personal space norms aren't innate, or else they wouldn't vary so much by culture. The "personal space bubble" which is typical in France is far too close in England, for instance.

I was always made aware of my facial expressions by my sister, Mom and Dad saying 'fix your face'. Talk about a way to get someone self conscious. I remember walking around with a mirror just so they'd hold it up to me when I needed to 'fix' it.

As for the personal space issues... I was made aware of them when I started learning languages in high school and university. The foreign language teacher would ask questions like 'how far apart do you stand when you speak with someone'. I was shocked when people in the class were able to answer that there was some unspecified amount that was the norm. I became very self conscious around that time because I had no clue what was socially appropriate in terms of 'space'.

Social cues... I still don't get them.

Edit: I should mention, that I only found out about aspergers last year... so in relation to the original question, I was aware about being awkward and having narrow interests but that is how most of my family was/is so I didn't know that we were different.

According the Chomsky, we are hardwired for these things, but we learn them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky So, you have the predisposition to learn them (we are missing or have defective wiring which is why we don't) and you pick them up by observation, intuition and rote learning. For example, babies watch their mothers and others constantly when they are months old. They begin to learn to read eyes and facial expressions right then. Their mother or someone smiles and they smile. Those are learned very early by intuition. Personal space is taught, usually around 2. That's when you will see a kid in a store just walk up to a stranger and stand too close and talk. The mother says to get back by her. That all starts at that age. Taking turns, sharing, learning that other people hurt when you bite them, and so on. All of those social rules start at that point. That continues to about age five at which time most people have learned almost all of it. Some of it, the more finer aspects, continue throughout life, but the bulk is learned by five.

It's almost amazing that Chomsky didn't stumble onto Autism and AS because he was the first to suggest that language precedes us. He basically said that we couldn't be what we know as humans without the appropriate wiring already existing in the brain. He included in that both verbal and non-verbal abilities. Given his completely obsessive interest in that for awhile, it's just amazing that he didn't look at people like us. He was interested in so called "wild" children. In some ways it is a shame, because if he had been the one to stumble onto AU/AS, the perception of it in the public would have been radically different because he would have seen it as a brain issue and not a behavioral/psych issue.

Of course, people still argue Chomsky's hardwiring argument, so it may not have helped after all.

HUH????????? WHAT personal space????????

I was taught when I was a YOUNG kid that there was an accepted space called PERSONAL space. The Americans had the largest, west europeans next largest, and many others had no concept. I was taught that in the 60s. By the 80s, everyone acts like it doesn't exist.

Just last friday some IDIOT stepped up to me so I could practically feel his breath. I took one OBVIOUS BIG step BACK, heard him out, and answered his question. He took ANOTHER step towards me(He would have knocked me down if I hadn't moved earlier), and I take an OBVIOUS step back. He leaned forward to touch me on the shoulder. If he leaned any further, he would have fallen down. WHY?????? Did he think it was magic or something? It WAS! I hate his guts!

FURTHER, an old spanish teacher tried that as a punishment! GUESS WHAT!! !! ! Hers was the ONLY car vandalized, and it wasn't just one occurence and many cars were better than hers! I didn't do it, but I had to laugh every time I saw her car!

BTW most autistics hate touch and/or crowds! SO, it figures, they would LIKE the concept of personal space!

Steve

I was absolutely clueless about all social rules of interaction until my mid 30's. My life was an absolute disaster and I was on the verge of losing everything. I started to seek a new way of doing things and have manged to turn things around. Eye contact is the worse. I hate doing it with a passion but NT's demand it so I force myself to do it.

Do you get it? I find myself staring trying to understand it. I never get it or improve. I took the test and guessed two right.

In all probability you will find not only innate characteristics to be common Mong us, but experiences also. Each posting is so familiar.

I have read mostly non fiction, but was still exposed long ago to the notion of a person staring into another's eyes. I tried so long and hard. Across the years I would try this to find only the feeling that my head would asplode.

At 53 years I find that I can fit in to function. But as I have told my NT friends and associates of my AS they haven't been shaken. They knew something was a tad off plumb.

Since finding myself I feel liberated!

Is anyone TRULY plumb?

I can do it but I don't get it. You are probably better than me at it because you got two more right on the test than I did. Statistically I should have gotten at least a few of them right but I got a zero.

....I thought I had social anxiety disorder and was working on it and making some progress. AFter I started reading about AS I figured that if I had AS I was probably offending people without knowing it, misreading people without knowing it, probably shouldn't have been doing the job I was doing at the time even though I was doing well, etc. (One of the few things available online to read about AS at the time (Sept. 2001) was a horrible forum for spouses of supposed Aspies. These spouses probably had their own problems but spent a lot of time trashing their supposed Aspie spouses; also many of the supposed Aspies were probably not really Aspies but had personality disorders such as narcissistic or borderline. (For instance, one woman said her husband's AS caused him to be unfaithful.) Anyway, the point is that was a bad introduction to AS.

I started to go back over everything I could remember about my past, especially my childhood, to see if anything pointed to AS and to be honest, I couldn't decide if it did or not. Because I thought AS to be a bad thing, and because I always thought there was something "seriously wrong" with me, I thought I had AS. I now realize AS isn't bad or good, it just is, but I still can't get over that. And I don't have any of the supposedly "Good AS" traits.

My social anxiety has gotten worse and I haven't done any more CBT or other therapy for it, and I've become obsessed with whether or not I have AS, so that I also now can be diagnosed with OCD. I quit my previous job because I was tired of worrying about what others thought of me and if I misunderstood someone or some small communication glitch happened, did it mean I had AS and did it mean I couldn't do my job. It also affected how I adjusted to my new job. I now wish I never had to work and could just stay home all the time and not interact with anyone except maybe online.

I'm probably the only one here who can say this, but I'd have been a lot better if I'd never read about AS. I realize it isn't the existence of AS that caused this reaction in me; it's something in myself that was looking for a reason why there was something "wrong" with me and probably a reason not to continue therapy for social anxiety because it was scary.

Oh, another thing I never thought about before reading about AS. I never thought I had a problem recognizing people. I don't have one, but after I read about some Aspies having faceblindness (prosopagnosia) I started thinking I had it because I didn't know some actor on TV I'd never seen before (I dont'have a TV so don't watch it much), and other thigns I don't even want to get into. Every time I didn't recognize someone I'd just met recently, like when I first started my job, all I did was worry about AS and faceblindness.

The other day I was watching one of the few shows I watch (on iTunes) and saw that an actor I'd seen in another show was going to be on. So I kept looking for him. There was one guy who had a lot of hair, a beard and was kind of dirty. He was years younger than the actor I'd seen before, but I thought "Oh, I suppose that's him and I just don't recognize him." I never would have thought this before; it wouldn't have occurred to me that that person was the actor I knew. And when he did appear I knew him right away. I would have probably recognized him if I hadn't seen his name.

I've always had a lot of self-doubt like this though; but since I read about AS now I have something to attach my self-doubt to. I'm always afraid to say I recognize anything unless I'm totally sure--I'm the same way with songs I don't know well or people's voices. I hate to tell what I know about anything in case I mess up.

First, if it helps, I don't think you have AS. If you did, SO WHAT????? If it is that hard for you to tell, DO YOU CARE? WHY???? You sound like someone worrying that they have brown hair because they see some brown hair in their currently blond hair.



Actually, the better actors DO change some things. Have you seen lucy lawless? how about tony shaloub in wings or MIB?

HECK, many stars simply dress down so they aren't bothered. Most, I have seen/heard of, do NOT wear disguises, despite what you may think. And GUESS WHAT! I think most people just miss them. If it makes you feel anybetter, my mother once told me Christina Applegate was behind me in a line. I would have liked to at least say HI! I don't know if she was right or wrong but, either way, you're NOT alone! DON'T you think she would get some attention if everyone in LAX recognized her? I was close to old stars like dean jones, gavin mccloud, etc... And newer ones like ron howard and justine bateman. NONE were in disguise.



HEY, aren't we all? I was once told by an ADULT that oedipus rex was a type of dinosaur! I thought "MAN, what an IDIOT!"! They saw that word rex(which simply means KING), and thought DINOSAUR! I have NO idea why he felt he had to tell me.

NOBODY is perfect. Nobody's memory is FLAWLESS, even if some here may appear close. Don't think you have alzheimers just because you forget something.

BTW there have been times where I have noticed differences in monozygotic twins even identically dressed, etc... Yet I often DO have the kind of face blindness you speak of. I jst have to conciously remember things, or I might not recognized them. Still, most people ARE distinct, etc... so it isn't THAT common. Think about it. Do you REALLY think everyone here is FULLY blind to that? NOPE! It is more like myopic.

Anyway, if you have trouble remembering 20% of what you learned, but learned 5 times what anyone else did, that is STILL pretty good! That isn't a handicap at all. For those bad at math, if you totally FORGOT that 20%, you would still know 4 times as much!

Steve

I don't like when people get too close to me, especially if they have bad body odor or bathe themselves in perfume or cologne. I get both extremes from patrons at the library where I work.

I never even realised how bad I am in social situations, in truth, until learning about AS. I just assumed I was a naturally difficult and anti social person, lol. I was bought up in a way where I was taught how to behave when out. I remember when I was a child, constantly doing things I was not meant to... like taking the wigs of store mannequins and lifting their skirts. I was always being told to 'look at me when I'm talking to you' or being asked 'You can wipe that smirk of your face' (when I had the wrong emotional reaction to being told off). I was always trying to barge my way into established groups of friends at school, with the result of rejection and animosity.

And even now, in spite of being bought up to behave in a 'normal' way, I am hopeless socially in many ways. I mostly cannot bear people to be near me. Even when talking to someone, I get extremely uncomfortable if I am sat opposite them or stood too near. But sometimes, when talking to the one person I am sort of friends with in this city, I will find myself standing insanely close and realise it. I envy those who are able to fake social interraction and small talk, as I find it terribly draining and frustrating. The idea of going to a nightclub or going to a bar for the evening horrifies me, especially with a group. A quite meal with one person in a quieter bar is fine, but anything noisy and I start feeling a deep loathing for the rest of humanity, lol.

I've never heard(seen) anyone else say that.. I realized when I was little that when I acted as ... what's his name... "Lifestyles of the rich and famous" anyways.. people liked it. I applied this by creating various characters for myself to be in different situations. Sometimes I'm not sure who I really am since I generally use rehearsed lines in daily conversation. Even amongst friends. Most recently I've been a specific rock star (he's dead) and girls really like it... only problem is the alcohol involved.. so now I'm trying to just be me, but it seems to make people think I'm suicidal.. well, not that I don't get severely depressed and all, but I wouldn't do THAT. Anyway, yeah I always thought I should go try out for a part, but I'm kind of afraid of those acting folks...