Think Spectra. Talk Spectra. Believe Spectra. Seek Spectra.

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btbnnyr
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04 Dec 2011, 5:41 pm

If I see overgeneralizations that do not apply to me, then I will just post my experiences that deviate from the overgeneralizations. I think that overgeneralizations will always be made though.



btbnnyr
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04 Dec 2011, 5:42 pm

It's actually more annoying to constantly read qualifiers like, "This is just about me, I'm not trying to generalize, I know that everyone with ASD is different". I prefer to just know that each person is talking about him or herself without the qualifiers.



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04 Dec 2011, 5:43 pm

dianthus wrote:
I am really new to all this. I never even heard the term "neuro-typical" until a few weeks ago. When I am talking about NTs, I am talking about my experiences with "most people" who are different from me in ways I don't fully understand yet. I am not trying to make sweeping generalizations, I am just trying to figure it all out.


That's understandable. I can't speak for anyone else but it's the NT's are evil, NT's are mind readers, any personal foible you care to name and is it something all aspies have that gets annoying sometimes. Absolutes are the problem. I don't blame you for trying to figure it all out. So am I.


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fraac
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04 Dec 2011, 5:50 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
It's actually more annoying to constantly read qualifiers like, "This is just about me, I'm not trying to generalize, I know that everyone with ASD is different". I prefer to just know that each person is talking about him or herself without the qualifiers.


I agree with this. From who else's experience could anyone possibly be talking? If someone is saying something, that's what they think. No need for qualifiers.



Tuttle
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04 Dec 2011, 6:37 pm

fraac wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
It's actually more annoying to constantly read qualifiers like, "This is just about me, I'm not trying to generalize, I know that everyone with ASD is different". I prefer to just know that each person is talking about him or herself without the qualifiers.


I agree with this. From who else's experience could anyone possibly be talking? If someone is saying something, that's what they think. No need for qualifiers.


The difference is between "I am like this" and "Aspies are like this"



Who_Am_I
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04 Dec 2011, 7:40 pm

pastafarian wrote:
fraac wrote:
pastafarian wrote:
Stop being wrong people


Haha. Bad people! Dirty people! In your bed!


Yeah yeah I know, I knew I sounded like a pompous nob-end :oops: Was just having a moment.


:lol: I spend a lot of effort on expressing exactly that sentiment in more tactful ways. One of these days I'm going to lose my temper and just come out with "STOP BEING WRONG GODDAMMIT!!"


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Tuttle
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04 Dec 2011, 7:47 pm

Who_Am_I wrote:
pastafarian wrote:
fraac wrote:
pastafarian wrote:
Stop being wrong people


Haha. Bad people! Dirty people! In your bed!


Yeah yeah I know, I knew I sounded like a pompous nob-end :oops: Was just having a moment.


:lol: I spend a lot of effort on expressing exactly that sentiment in more tactful ways. One of these days I'm going to lose my temper and just come out with "STOP BEING WRONG GODDAMMIT!!"


Image

(I think a lot of us on here are guilty of this, including me)



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04 Dec 2011, 8:33 pm

I have NT friends. They had to learn to socialize and made many mistakes. It wasn't just some magical ability they were born with.

As for talk of "NT's are inferior". Not my friends. They're wonderful, productive and caring people.



TheSunAlsoRises
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04 Dec 2011, 8:40 pm

pastafarian wrote:
Stop being wrong people, the generalisations are driving me nuts. People are people, its a fekkin spectrum.

People keep saying researchers are wrong, posters are wrong, Aspies are like this and that, cos they themselves are like this and that. There is no self-doubt.

People keep saying NTs are like this and that, cos they know NTs that are like this and that.

I just want people to understand each other. I want the world to understand autistics, for research to help people, for every to be loved, valued and respected. I want social justice.

How can progress happen, when intelligent people can be so certain their own experiences extrapolate to all Aspies and all NTs? Its breaking my heart. Its bad out there in the real world, its depressing to see it here.

It is so simple. People have good and bad traits - whether neuro-typicals or aspies. NTs and Aspies fit within spectra of traits. Think spectra. Talk spectra. Believe spectra. Argue spectra. Look for spectra. Confirm spectra.

Keep an open mind? Some folk simply can't read it when someone says thats not their experience. They can only read stuff that confirms their views, the rest goes out of focus. They have no self-doubt to drive them to learn a different picture.

I understand the bitterness towards NTs but its f***ing up the progress.
Its driving me nuts because it means people will never be happy, I want people to be happy. I need a holiday.


:D Remember spectrum and i can guarantee you that progress will follow.

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pastafarian
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05 Dec 2011, 7:14 am

Tuttle wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
pastafarian wrote:
fraac wrote:
pastafarian wrote:
Stop being wrong people


Haha. Bad people! Dirty people! In your bed!


Yeah yeah I know, I knew I sounded like a pompous nob-end :oops: Was just having a moment.


:lol: I spend a lot of effort on expressing exactly that sentiment in more tactful ways. One of these days I'm going to lose my temper and just come out with "STOP BEING WRONG GODDAMMIT!!"


Image

(I think a lot of us on here are guilty of this, including me)


Brilliant! You are giving me confidence.



Verdandi
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05 Dec 2011, 7:45 am

Tuttle wrote:
Image

(I think a lot of us on here are guilty of this, including me)


This has been my life since 1993. If you expand that to include BBSes as well, it goes back to 1989.

I've been wanting to make the point about generalizing what all autistic people are like from one's own experiences (I actually made such a point in a thread earlier to someone who did exactly that).



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05 Dec 2011, 7:55 am

Joe90 wrote:
If you're trying to say you're pissed off with people here splitting Aspies and NTs up into completely opposite groups and adding more ''traits'' to Autism what are never even heard of and what are just as commin in neurotypicals as it is anybody, then I agree 100 percent with you. :D

Lately WP has been depressing me. It's made me feel more different to what I really am, and it's somehow worried me and has made me believe that nobody will ever like me, apart from family. In one of the posts I read a few months back, someone wrote ''you will always make people tut and sigh and turn you away, no matter how easy you think you can relate to people''. That had scared the sh** out of me, and I almost wanted to kill myself because of it.

But I've made myself stop believing all that sh**. What happens to one Aspie may not happen to another. I'm going to believe what I see, and not what I don't see. From now on, I'm only going to believe everything that is put in front of my eyes, because if I don't then I will be wondering and worrying for the rest of my life. People have always criticised me into looking on the bright side of life instead of spending my days whining and moping, and so this is what I'm trying to do.


One thing I've noticed that probably doesn't help is that you make a point to object to every single thread in which people discuss traits that are possibly autistic, even when there's validated research that supports the possibility (for example - the handedness thread, or the thread I started about schizotypal traits) or you come into a thread that would otherwise have no interest to you and tell everyone they're wrong and should stop talking about whatever it is they're talking about (you did this in a thread about non-binary gender that wasn't even specifically about autistic people being transgender or non-binary gender).

I think, when you come across these threads, you'd probably find it a lot less stressful, to let them go. If you know it doesn't apply to you, then it doesn't apply to you. Getting more angry and lashing out when someone presents research that contradicts your assumption that it must be wrong doesn't help either, such as you did in the thread about physical features associated with autism.

No one is asking these questions or discussing these topics to antagonize you, and no one can possibly be responsible for any anxiety you develop because of these threads. There's nothing wrong with pointing out that such things are correct and factual or incorrect and nonfactual. However, getting emotionally invested in the idea that it must be wrong even when it isn't is probably a waste of time and probably isn't going to help.

Anyway, really, you don't have to defend yourself from every single question. Most of them probably don't apply to you as it is, you know? And if it doesn't apply to you, you don't have to justify that it shouldn't apply to anyone else. Because, as the OP said, we're all different. It may be that it doesn't apply to anyone else, but that's a different issue.

I apologize if it sounds like I keep a checklist of which threads you get involved in - I don't. I just have a fairly good memory for discussions, even after the fibromyalgia got into it. I actually like most of your posts and respect you much. You definitely don't hesitate to speak your mind here, and I think that's a good thing.



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05 Dec 2011, 10:17 am

Pastafari et al,

I've been thinking about this, lurking this post now and then. I'll admit that I think that generalizations and stereotypes can be very useful, but in a limited way. If they were not, we would not have terms like "Aspergers" to describe similar groups of people in the first place.

I once called Auties "Autistic Spectrometers" as an attempt at humor. It seems like there's three prominent subgroups on the spectrum, names for which popped into my head when I has having my morning cup of black. Maybe I'll quote my own brain so I can see it in the pretty white box:

Quote:
Autistic Spectrometers, arranged from most verbal to least:

Rhetors: verbal, rhetorical thinkers, good with grammar and words
Numerators: systematic pattern thinkers, good with maths, music
Geometers: geometrical thinkers, visual, artists, good with machines
Tactors: tactile thinkers, good with identifying textures by touch
Olfactors: smell thinkers, good with flavors

Further, people may be modal, shifting at times between these categories
.

I included the latter two categories, although I feel them to be almost completely unrepresented on WP, because they are the most polarized away from words (the medium we communicate with on WP.) Imagine trying to describe "doing math in smells" solely using words. My suspicion is that most of the "LFA" are Tactors, Olfactors, and monolithic Geometers.²

I am rather severely modal, personally. I can think in any of the Spectra, but only one at a time and cannot choose which one I use, or when I shift modes. I will have sudden difficulty talking if I shift modes from Rhetor into Tactor mid conversation, as when someone touches my arm.

A lot of the threads that go "Are all Aspies like X?" would actually make a lot of sense if they were categorized by Spectra, since a lot of the symptoms on the Spectrum seem to be "comorbid¹" with one of those categories. "Do all Geometers think in pictures?" would yield a much more informative conversation, as would "Do any Numerators ever think in pictures?"

-
¹ - For the record, I despise the word "comorbid" as a pejorative
² - I also hate the term "LFA," because tactile and olfactory intelligence are still intelligence, but are untested on "IQ" tests, insinuating that combining complex flavors or discerning subtle textures is not intelligent or cannot be learned.


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