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LearningTime
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21 Nov 2012, 7:42 pm

Venger wrote:
Harbor Seals are cuter than otters.


your small talk was inappropriate. i suggest you luke up social skill rule no.5042 in the dsm.

edit: wasn't inappropriate i didn't see the user rivverotter and didn't notice venger had already contributed - i'll leave it here though because the number thing is cool.



Last edited by LearningTime on 21 Nov 2012, 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LearningTime
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21 Nov 2012, 7:55 pm

thought i'd just post an interesting thing to do with the mind as i wrote my post above i didn't think for any specific number other than a large one to make the joke and the number 504..whatever came up into my mind and interestingly that's the number of the post count on wrong planet in the tab above which was vibsible on my tabs and so that peripheral sensory thing i wasn't even focused is what decided what my subconsious mind came up with as a number. it's not actually that startling this has happened before when it came to thinking up a online name.



Samian
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21 Nov 2012, 7:57 pm

arielhawksquill wrote:
The OP might enjoy this thread from a few years ago entitled "NTs DO THINGS with conversation..."
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt87241.html


That's pretty good! where's the LIKE button?



LearningTime
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21 Nov 2012, 8:08 pm

Stoek wrote:
kotshka wrote:


Meh don't confuse conversation with small talk.

One may have small talk with a person they have no intention of befriend or even liking. It's a moderating instinct so that the ignored member of the group won't attack you in the future.


Anyhow small talk isn't as bad as it seems. Once you realize that there is no information change, no intent for sharing of feelings, just a tagging of another member of the species.



i can understand that concept - if there's already the feeling of a group you have that feeling and this other person is a part of that group (which i have to say comes from the need to be in a tribe for evolutionary reasons danger i think) then it's like a fear thing just gota speak to this person can't reveal i don't like him coz he's part of the group liked by others.
i don't mind small talk when i now realise that's just like you just want to say something to be friendly and not have a silence etc but your need to just speak is the need rather than the need to say a particular thing but as humans we gota use words so you'll just have to settle for the weather if you really want to communicate yet can't think of anything. my grip was just from seeing it being taught as essential - any person that would be offended if the other person didn't talk about the weather or something equal dull aint good in my opinion. also when i've read people say you need to read about current events or sport so you can be able to small talk as if it's practically like a jaywalking level crime not. i had an unrealistic view of small talk it's not always the weather it could just be like anything small talk to me could even mean just talking about yourself just starting to ramble about the most recent thing whatever just to fill the silence if it takes no effort to. but then with this view i still i don't understand why it's apparently life or death not to have it in your socially approved toolbox of social skills.



JRR
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21 Nov 2012, 8:19 pm

Samian wrote:
arielhawksquill wrote:
The OP might enjoy this thread from a few years ago entitled "NTs DO THINGS with conversation..."
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt87241.html


That's pretty good! where's the LIKE button?


Wow, I like it a lot!! It seems that greentea really knows her stuff. Where can I find books on that???



LearningTime
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21 Nov 2012, 8:27 pm

Watilla wrote:
From what I gather, while doing research on this very topic in the past, small talk is apparently essential for bonding, and the average person (NT) may not see small talk as meaningless.

If it's true that small talk is essential, it'll explain why I miss the boat a lot. :lol:


there's definately a distinction between those that will kind of silently hate you for not small talking and not really small talk themselves as they're so hyperaware that you're not going to make the move to small talk. and there are those that won't mind if you don't make small talk. and both are neurotypical but if i had to call one disordered it would be the first. like small talk's it's how far the people take it as neccessary.

but now i think now there is no 'meaning' behind small talk - socialising is a visceral experience and when you talk it#s just to have the experience of talking rather than silence - if you're truly in the mood for small talk you won't be hearing what they say you'll be hearing their sound at each point in their inflection of their speech. as if you treat it like music. there is no meaning to your senses they are what they are and if you're in the moment and not a person with serious interests that you systemise to complete be successfull at then you're probably in teh visceral thoughtless 'in the present' mode and when you're really in this mode all these senses are so blissfull and with unique feeling to them. it's just like why not have sound in our interaction rather than silence ie pure visuals. when someone starts like 'pleasant humming' around you (i was walking late at night on a path and there was just one other person walking close by and she started humming as closer) that's basically a form of small talk because it's like kind of acknowledging you and the silence between you.

this whole idea was just impossible for me who was a serious thinking person to guess on this stuff because honestly i had no idea people payed attention to the senses as much as they do...



AlmaBrown
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21 Nov 2012, 8:28 pm

I don't understand small talk. :P I suppose that I can understand the theory behind the practice (acquaintance maintenance. some sort of easy bonding) but I can never recognize the difference between genuine interest and an attempt at small talk. Why ask a question if you don't care about the answer? People just dismiss me as snobby or rude so I get away with it a lot. My friends say it's part of my quirky charm. It seems to be a social necessity though, so I've begun to practice on people/ learn more about how to do it.



LearningTime
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21 Nov 2012, 8:36 pm

JRR wrote:
Small talk is the mental equivalent of the grooming that is done by monkeys and other great apes.

Image

Yeah, we're 98% that, so the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

I am not joking. This is in university-level books on psychology.

I post on this all the time but read books on Evolutionary Psychology by Buss. For our logical minds, it should add up quite easily.

It's purpose, like grooming in other primates, is to create an air of comfort, to bring people closer together and create social bonds. It removes stress, to a degree, as part of the bonding process.

Now, just like in all evolution, when mutations occur, there's often a tradeoff, a new good coming with a negative, and it seems that Asperger's / ASD, while creating greater focus and mental acuity, has this thing broken in us, just like the natural ability to read social cues, and valuing things like "small talk."

Side note: I just realized that Kotshka seems to be saying basically the same thing as me, so I agree there.


i think that's right about grooming equivalent. and in my primary school we always made patterns with our hands on the back of each others tshirts as we sat down on the floor being taught. except grooming actually feels nice whereas hearing someone speak if you're a person who thinks a lot whenver you hear any word it gets your mind thinking and thus coming up with a logical answer or relevant ie basically thought and this is frankly unfair so it shouldn't be imposed if i can tell someone is of that type i don't get offended if they don't make small talk. only if you're so in the moment that you're reading their face does hearing them speak make sense. if you look eojadius on youtube he's so synaesthetic that he just listens to his friends speak and hear doesn't hear at all what he say he's just paying attention to hte synaesthetic senses that their voices create in him.

i don't think the tradeoff for humans as a species between not always doing small talk but being able to think about difficult concepts and find cures to cancer and all that is wrong - thus aspie isn't a disorder in my mind. they far outweight the good (which is a selfish good ultimately) of socialising. if humans didn't need to socialise there'd be nothign wrong with not socialising and only communicatig for the completion of mutual goals or generally just exchanging.



LearningTime
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21 Nov 2012, 8:47 pm

riverotter wrote:
LearningTime wrote:

What's really going on is that, when you have had small talk with people, they are much more likely to help you out in the future. At work, you would think people would do the work for the sake of doing the work, but if you let them know there is a particular bit of work to be done and you have not had this small talk previously, they will not do it. They will also give you poor work evals. Yes, it is silly. It is just how it is.

Short answer: it has no meaning.


i've always picked up on the ask them back reciprocate but i haven't picked up on why people love talking about themselves so much. that's probably why i'm less social brained and to me this fact is just as bad as if autistic people are bad for going on about their topics in extremes. though one time when i was actually lonely had the emotion/sensation of needing to be around others literally negative emotions entering my mind on my own which i dont' get often when i did go to people in the flat i just couldn't stop speaking and i wasn't thinking about it was just rambling everything about myself what had been happening to me/what i've been doing. and then honeslty when the guy started speaking back i like didn't want to hear em speak i just looked at the other people having a fight in the corridor liveliness but there was definately a sensation of hearing his voice that was like oh s**t if i'm hearing someone speak then that means i'm not speaking and that's what i'm hear for or something. it was a strange sensation and i assure you it was due to a sensation not choice that's why it was strange and i'm never usually rambling talking a lot let alone feeling bad as i listen. scary thing that some people (probably normal people) are like that most of the time. and i think if i detect someone literaly is disliking the sound of me speaking yet wanting to speak themselves i just wont' speak or listen to them.

i hope there's a lot of workplaces which aren't like that.



LearningTime
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21 Nov 2012, 9:01 pm

Samian wrote:
I don't think it matters what's being said in small talk - the words are not imporatant. The topic can even change randomly - doesn't matter.

It's the "message" that's important and it travels its own path separate from the words.

The message is often simply "I like you - you like me - we like the same things"

People like it when you ask them questions or compliment their cloths - the "I like you" part.

The next time you see the person and their face lights up , you have confirmation that the message was received. Then you can make plans for the weekend or whatever.

I guess it's a system that 's worked fine for a long time - silly as it may seem.

'People like it when you ask them questions or compliment their cloths - the "I like you" part.' - i get that.

problem with liking is that you really have to admit to yourself that you dislike others. you can't like someone without disliking others. so the idea of 'liking' isn't a good/neccessary or not thing in my view. the world aint a better place with people liking each other because it just means that people dislike each other.



Samian
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21 Nov 2012, 9:09 pm

JRR wrote:
Samian wrote:
arielhawksquill wrote:
The OP might enjoy this thread from a few years ago entitled "NTs DO THINGS with conversation..."
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt87241.html


That's pretty good! where's the LIKE button?


Wow, I like it a lot!! It seems that greentea really knows her stuff. Where can I find books on that???


"A field guide to earthlings" by Ian ford is one to check out.



shyengineer
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21 Nov 2012, 10:21 pm

arielhawksquill wrote:
The OP might enjoy this thread from a few years ago entitled "NTs DO THINGS with conversation..."
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt87241.html


Samian wrote:
"A field guide to earthlings" by Ian ford is one to check out.


Preview of the book

This thread, the other thread and the book = mind blowing!



muff
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21 Nov 2012, 10:39 pm

LearningTime wrote:
Venger wrote:
Harbor Seals are cuter than otters.


your small talk was inappropriate. i suggest you luke up social skill rule no.5042 in the dsm.

edit: wasn't inappropriate i didn't see the user rivverotter and didn't notice venger had already contributed - i'll leave it here though because the number thing is cool.


numbers are cuter than harbor seals wearing otter costumes.



LearningTime
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21 Nov 2012, 10:45 pm

shyengineer wrote:
arielhawksquill wrote:
The OP might enjoy this thread from a few years ago entitled "NTs DO THINGS with conversation..."
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt87241.html


Samian wrote:
"A field guide to earthlings" by Ian ford is one to check out.


Preview of the book

This thread, the other thread and the book = mind blowing!


thanks for saying that.

and holy s**t, from reading up to page 11, it seems like that man has all the answers i'm about to find out and probably fuse with my own understandings ie systems of thought.

you should check out my thread 'what are your thinking styles' that's pretty mindblowing. was for me when i learnt dyslexic people literally see 3d objects so well that when they see 2d symbols ie words their mind rotates it in every possible way subconciosuly and that's why when they look on the page the letters are back to front literally. and then i found out that they never have internal voice to think they only think in images - each word they read gives them an image. i still don't get exactly how that works and will ask on the dyslexia part of this forum. i have a feeling they just get by completely without logic (ie syntax).