How many people do you think R born NT & develop into As

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yes I should of mentioned that i was operated near the temporal lobe region on the right side just about an inch or so above the ear
i'm sorry I don't have any scans my neurologist has them in a file
it was an epilepsy surgery I had first then I had a grade 2 astrocytoma tumor 2 years and a few months later

lol no there wasn't any brain damage my neurologist would of been able to see that in the MRI scans that I had

I tend to think Asperger's is something one is born with, as that's the case with everyone I've known who is on the autism spectrum, including myself. I do think it's plausible that someone could be born NT then change after a brain injury or even surgery, but those cases are extremely rare. The only way to really know would be if there were brain scans done before and after the surgery, with the post surgery scan being compared to the scan of someone who was born with AS.

Alright even so it seems the surgery had something to do with it, so developting Aspergers or Autism doesn't make much sense though whatever happened could look exactly like it.......If the diagnoses is helpful though no need to worry about it, but if your concerned with complete accuracy I'd suggest maybe questioning that diagnoses and getting a second opinion.

The evidence says otherwise it isn't impossible, I was assessed for many months before and after the surgery by the exact same speech and language therapist, and had I any traits at all..... of aspergers they would of been present then and I would of been diagnosed then but there wasn't it only started to show at the age of 12 and if you were to ask the majority of people of the 90's generation who have a A.S. the diagnoses it is most likely between the ages of 4 to 7 and I never showed any signed whatsoever of autism during my earlier years.

Even then the brain of the person born with AS and the one who was born neurotypical would not be identical so it might be hard to see any exact differences that are relevent.

That was done, it is how my neurologist showed my parents and I

it wasn't a misdiagnoses if that is what your suggesting I was diagnosed first by two different speech and language therapist and then I was forced to have a psychiatrist that specialized with people who have AS and she confirmed it, so it is completely accurate.

I dunno. People who get something lodged into their brains, but they survive the surgery to remove it, but their personality changes afterwards, and maybe they can be diagnosed with "AS". My grandfather had a falling on his head workplace accident, and afterwards, he had a limp, and his personality changed, and he acted a lot like Rainman, so he could have been diagnosed with "autism" based on his post-brain-damage traits, but he would not have fit the early childhood onset criterion for autism, but there is no such criterion for AS.

Well do they know about the surgery or not? If they do and still made that diagnoses than maybe I am misinformed. But it just doesn't makes sense that a neurotypical would suddenly get a developmental disorder that people are born with from a surgery......simular symptoms makes more sense. But I certainly am not the expert. I suppose I am just curious as to why they would diagnose aspergers if the symptoms occurred after a brain surgery.

Oh of course they knew I had a serious operation and everything all the tests and meetings with my neurologist were interlinked together
I appreciate your interest

Zero?

Isn't it thought that the wiring in the brain of people on the spectrum are wired differently with substantially more neurons in certain parts of the brain than normal?

Of course, the brain goes through a whole lot of pruning. I guess it could be possible that we are all born with about the same number of neurons in the brain but that in some people, far less pruning gets done and those people end up on the spectrum. I don't know if there is any evidence to suggest that this might be true, though.

So basically, it seems likely that you are either born on the spectrum or not born on the spectrum or are born too close to the borderline to determine.

Neurologically and genetically speaking it isn't possible to be born NT and then develop an ASC; genetically because the genes simply don't change in that way, and neurologically because although the brain is plastic at a young age it cannot completely change its structure in the way that it would have to if it were to go from NT to ASC.

And there still isn't the technology and understanding of the brain to determine whether or not a brain is AS from an MRI scan although there are now some indicators that are recognisable.

So, there are 2 possibilities:

If you were developing as an NT before surgery and there were observable differences in your brain after surgery then it is likely that your NT development was actually not NT at all but masked ASC development and that the surgery triggered the more obvious ASC patterns.
This is likely to be what happens in "regressive auitsm" - the condition is there but something at that age (usually around 2) either internally or externally puts pressure on the neurological system which triggers the development of ASC behaviours which weren't previously observable. The genetic propensity is there but not obvious until there is a trigger of some sort. (I am not suggesting any link with vaccines here - that's not part of this issue)

or

If you have developed ASC traits after brain surgery you may not be genetically AS but the surgery affected parts of your neurological system connected with autistic traits so you developed an ASC presentation without the genetic markers.

You should be very valuable to researchers as they may well be able to pinpoint differences that correspond to behavioural patterns from your scans.

This is how the understanding of congenital prosopagnosia was built - from people who had specific brain injuries affecting the fusiform gyrus and the amygdala. These people were, and still are, studied at length and it was only many years after the condition was first recognised in brain injured patients that the medical profession realised that the condition could also be congenital as most people with the condition, especially if it is mild, don't actually realise they should see a face/all of a face so they never mention they have a problem with it.

I may have been born NT and then with what I went through with hearing loss and lot of ear infections and fevers, it effected with my development. I was diagnosed with AS in 6th grade and I never got over my problems. I have gotten better. I was still a typical toddler in ways like the tantrums, the manipulations, pointing to things, interacting with people, I opened my presents and didn't play with the paper, I did pretend play.

Last edited by League_Girl on 23 Dec 2012, 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

My son, who was clearly autistic from birth - with hindsight - also appeared to develop "normally". He did, and still does in his 20s, pretend play, interaction with people, empathy, opening presents, etc. He didn't do any of the "typical" autistic things, he even made eye contact - although it is over-intense. Only as he grew into primary school did it become obvious that there was more to his differences from other kids than just being extremely intelligent. I specifically said he still does these things in his 20s as his play and interaction skills are still at a very young level even though he is at university.

but looking back there were subtle differences - he preferred adult company and had to be encouraged to make any connection with peers, he was absorbed by things rather than people, he started collecting things at 2 years old - we still have his extensive golf ball collection in the cellar somewhere - and he was never naughty (and I mean never, to the extent that at his 3 year check I said to the GP when asked if I had any concerns " I just wish he was naughty sometimes, like any other normal toddler").

Sometimes you only see the differences when the social environment moves on a stage or 2 - the complexity changes at about 7, then 11, then 15.... and able kids on the spectrum are usually diagnosed in clusters around those ages if it is not obvious in them as toddlers.

Zero the requirements for Aspergers is it must be present from birth. This is one of the diagnostic requirements.