Am I autistic?
whirlingmind
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I've done more research on it and I think i'm maybe just on the borderline or Broader Autism Phenotype.
I spoke to my mum and she said when I was young I did use to order things a lot but I never threw tantrums or got overly upset if this was disrupted. Apparently I used to play with other kids as much as any other kid does and did engage in pretend play. That information would point to me being outside of the spectrum. Maybe i'm just a weird aloof intellectual.
I do work with autistic people, and have always felt like can understand that way of thinking and experiencing the world because I have what appear to be milder traits myself.
Autistic children can and do engage in pretend play. Myself and my two daughters are proof of that.
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Thankyou everybody for replying. As for the breakdowns Callista and Whirlingmind, I think you both have valuable points there which are much appreciated.
It is a tricky one, like you say these things could just be a mixture of poor social skills/anxiety/OCD/general eccentricity, and that is what I put it down to before. Great advice about seeing the doctor Callista, you are right that those are the underlying questions and that is the kind of thing that I will be saying to them.
Whirlingmind, it's interesting to hear of your experiences. I only fairly recently discovered that female AS traits can be somewhat different from male traits and therefore sometimes not as easy to detect or categorise as AS. I just bought a book by Rudy Simone called Aspergirls. You may have heard of her. She is a female with AS who interviewed a range of other females on the spectrum and used her findings along with other research and her own experiences to write a guide that specifically focuses on female AS. From reading about it online it seems to have been a lot of help to aspie girls and their families/friends who wished to understand more about their experiences.
Yes I am in the UK and I will definitely have a look at that link.
daydreamer84
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whirlingmind: I don't think Callista meant to imply that to have autism you have to have every little symptom or trait -she was just trying to separate out the stereotypes about AS (gifted, intellectual) from the symptoms and associated traits (special interests, problems with social cues ect) and to give the OP a sense of what other things certain traits can indicate. Giftedness is not at all more prevalent among those with AS than in the general population. Also, what Tony Atwood is talking about is a fantasy world (imaginary world) which most kids have becoming a special interest, all consuming, the kid spending all their time in this world ect. This is often used as a coping mechanism for AS girls, escape from reality ect. What she described sounded more like just normal pretend play alone and with other kids. I still think the OP might have AS and should see a professional if she wants help with the problems she listed....just wanted to point these things out.
whirlingmind
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I don't think you can separate them out like that though, OP was giving a list of traits which needed to be considered all together in answering her question. If she had just asked individual things that were not related to AS then I agree, however she gave the whole picture and asked if she is autistic, so the sum total needs to be taken into account, plus even the ones which aren't specific to autism/AS are related to AS when viewed in relation to the others.
Could you refer me to research on what you say about giftedness please. On Wikipedia it says this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giftedness
Many gifted individuals experience various types of heightened awareness and may seem overly sensitive. These sensitivities may be to physical senses such as sight, sound, smell, movement and touch. For example, they may be extremely uncomfortable when they have a wrinkle in their sock, or unable to concentrate because of the sound of a clock ticking on the other side of the room. Sensitivities of the gifted are often due to mental and emotional over-awareness. For example, picking up on the feelings of someone close to them, having extreme sensitivity to their own internal emotions, and taking in external information at a significantly higher rate than those around them. These various kinds of sensitivities often mean that the more gifted an individual is, the more input and awareness they experience, leading to the contradiction of them needing more time to process than others who are not gifted.[16]
Hypersensitivity to external or internal stimuli can resemble a proneness to "sensory overload", which can cause such persons to avoid highly stimulating, chaotic or crowded environments. This kind of highly sensitive nature has also been called "overexcitability" by Kazimierz Dabrowski. Some are able to tune out such unwanted stimulation as they focus on their chosen task or on their own thoughts. In many cases, awareness may fluctuate between conditions of hyperstimulation and of withdrawal. (An individual's tendencies to feel overwhelmed is also affected by their extraversion and introversion.)
These conditions may appear to be very similar to symptoms of hyperactivity, bipolar disorder, ADHD, autism-spectrum conditions, and other psychological disorders, but are often explained by gifted education professionals by reference to Kazimierz Dabrowski's theory of Positive Disintegration.[17] Some researchers focus on the study of overexcitabilities. Overexcitabilities refer to ways people, both children and adults, understand and experience the world around them (Gross 2008). The more channels of overexcitabilities that are open to receive the information or stimulus, the stronger or more intense the experience is.
Also this: http://www.giftedness.org/Giftedness/home.html and this: http://www.psychology4education.com/int ... edness.php
So it would seem that many gifted people could be considered on the spectrum due to other traits, or at the least to have some of the traits of autism and therefore not totally NT, at least atypical.
Regarding the pretend play and living in her own world, you appear to have mixed up two different parts of the post. OP was talking about often being in her own world, spaced out. I compared this to the way children with AS are immersed in their imaginative world, and that you don't suddenly lose this as an adult. The pretend play was separate, but children with ASCs can and do, engage in pretend play.
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daydreamer84
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^^^
In one of Atwood's books he states that the average IQ of people with AS is average like in the general population. There are more people below average and more people high side of average -extremes -people with AS often have more trouble or less trouble with school- still there aren't more geniuses with AS than in the rest of the population. I read this in Chapters-don't have the book. I don't have a reference for this. WHen I looked up autism or asprerger's and IQ for scholarly in my uni's library all that came up are the mean IQs of AS groups vs. typical groups in studies- them being matched for IQ-interestingly they go over the mean IQ for each group and the AS group is often lower-they have to be similar though- so , AS group mean IQ 94, typical group mean IQ 104 ect. Maybe just selection bias...people who participate in the studies. Maybe some features of high intelligence resemble autism (like particular strong interests) but then it's important to separate the two. High intelligence is not an indicator of autism. It'd take more searching to find the reference.
Edit:Also in the book he was discussing that some false estimates of a higher IQ in the AS population come from the fact that if you just did a bell curve with people diagnosed with AS and compared it to the general pop it would be high beacuse AS is currently requires a "lack of global cognitive delay" so by definition we have normal or higher intelligence-because it's autism with normal intelligence and no speech delay. This doesn't mean people with AS tend to be gifted and this book says that when you statistically adjust for the above problem our IQ's average out to average. Anyway, this confusion will lessen when AS becomes part of the ASD category and we don't have all these confusing sub categories-then we'll get different stats.
Anyway spacing out is not the same as what Tony Atwood was talking about. He was talking about kids who's imaginary worlds become their whole lives -sure it could continue into adulthood to a certain extent- but it's not really like a documented thing that this manifests in spacing out as an adult- and as Callista pointed out spacing out is just really common among NT's too- and extremely common among those with ADHD so it's not necessarily an autistic thing.

I just took the The Ritvo Autism Asperger Diagnostic Scale-Revised (RAADS-R) out of curiosity.
My total score was 208.0 The average for females is 166.5 O,O
MakaylaTheAspie
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I just took the The Ritvo Autism Asperger Diagnostic Scale-Revised (RAADS-R) out of curiosity.
My total score was 208.0 The average for females is 166.5 O,O
I got a 119.

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Hi there! Please refer to me as Moss. Unable to change my username to reflect that change. Have a nice day. <3

I just took the The Ritvo Autism Asperger Diagnostic Scale-Revised (RAADS-R) out of curiosity.
My total score was 208.0 The average for females is 166.5 O,O
I got a 119.

Maybe I am more autistic than I figured lol
MakaylaTheAspie
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I just took the The Ritvo Autism Asperger Diagnostic Scale-Revised (RAADS-R) out of curiosity.
My total score was 208.0 The average for females is 166.5 O,O
I got a 119.

Maybe I am more autistic than I figured lol
Nah, you're just more awesome.

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Hi there! Please refer to me as Moss. Unable to change my username to reflect that change. Have a nice day. <3
whirlingmind
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In one of Atwood's books he states that the average IQ of people with AS is average like in the general population. There are more people below average and more people high side of average -extremes -people with AS often have more trouble or less trouble with school- still there aren't more geniuses with AS than in the rest of the population. I read this in Chapters-don't have the book. I don't have a reference for this. WHen I looked up autism or asprerger's and IQ for scholarly in my uni's library all that came up are the mean IQs of AS groups vs. typical groups in studies- them being matched for IQ-interestingly they go over the mean IQ for each group and the AS group is often lower-they have to be similar though- so , AS group mean IQ 94, typical group mean IQ 104 ect. Maybe just selection bias...people who participate in the studies. Maybe some features of high intelligence resemble autism (like particular strong interests) but then it's important to separate the two. High intelligence is not an indicator of autism. It'd take more searching to find the reference.
Edit:Also in the book he was discussing that some false estimates of a higher IQ in the AS population come from the fact that if you just did a bell curve with people diagnosed with AS and compared it to the general pop it would be high beacuse AS is currently requires a "lack of global cognitive delay" so by definition we have normal or higher intelligence-because it's autism with normal intelligence and no speech delay. This doesn't mean people with AS tend to be gifted and this book says that when you statistically adjust for the above problem our IQ's average out to average. Anyway, this confusion will lessen when AS becomes part of the ASD category and we don't have all these confusing sub categories-then we'll get different stats.
Anyway spacing out is not the same as what Tony Atwood was talking about. He was talking about kids who's imaginary worlds become their whole lives -sure it could continue into adulthood to a certain extent- but it's not really like a documented thing that this manifests in spacing out as an adult- and as Callista pointed out spacing out is just really common among NT's too- and extremely common among those with ADHD so it's not necessarily an autistic thing.
Not sure I understood all your explanation about how the research has been measured. I think it's dangerous to use averages, especially where as you stated AS people have more extremes at either end of the scale of intelligence. I would imagine, that if you took the whole AS population (and I mean AS not autistic because we are talking about the OP having AS and obviously classic autism includes some very low functioning people so would give an unfair lowering of scores), that compared to the NT population there would be more gifted people with AS and that those people would be more gifted than the gifted NTs.
Spacing out, is a form of daydreaming. If you speak to most people who daydream, they are not just blank minded, they are thinking about things, often random things and often hypothetical things that they might like to do etc. which is an adult form of the imaginary world of an AS child. ASC children spend time imagining their fantasy worlds, I know this because I did it as a child and my two ASC children do it (and tell me about it), and I know how it translates into my adult spacing out/zoning out/daydreaming, it's all part and parcel of the same thing. Tony Attwood may have only referred to imaginary worlds but then he was only referring to children when he wrote about it.
_________________
*Truth fears no trial*
DX AS & both daughters on the autistic spectrum

I just took the The Ritvo Autism Asperger Diagnostic Scale-Revised (RAADS-R) out of curiosity.
My total score was 208.0 The average for females is 166.5 O,O
I got a 119.

Maybe I am more autistic than I figured lol
Nah, you're just more awesome.

+Does the awesome dance!*
there are some great comments on this thread, I wanted to add my support to their posts -
I think you definitely describe a lot of my behaviours and preoccupations : I was diagnosed earlier this year, having self diagnosed using WP and a range of tests you can get on the internet ... books, studying child development and wondering about it for years previously...I wanted to ask you a quick question - you said you were:
Very interested in Psychology, Sociology, Philosophy and highly intellectual and so can understand psychological theories very well but find it difficult to apply this.
I've recently had to come to terms that a lot of my preoccupation with these subjects over the years (to the exclusion of pursuing other subjects and hobbies that I would have found easier) has been fundamentally to try to understand human behaviour and ultimately myself.
Do you think that this is maybe why you are interested in the above? What is it about psychology that really gets you?
I'm not suggesting your interest in psychology shows that you're an aspie ... but I do
think a lot of aspies and borderline aspies get involved in psychology and in my experience, quite a few of us end up working in this and other related fields.
anyway - if you are wondering I would suggest at some point when you can, you spend time discussing these concerns with a qualified specialist in assessing female aspies - there are so many stories on WP of people going to see psychs with v outdated takes on all this, and with no experience of assessing women.
all the best!
daydreamer84
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That';s exactly what the research in the book I read said was not true. It was roughly equal (no significant difference). This was research only comparing HF ASD people with NTs. The giftedness correlation is a stereotype. It's a bit annoying because it does encourage some people to think having AS would be cool.....like being labelled a genius. My friend from an ASD support group said someone (NT) actually said to her it'd be really cool to have AS and he wished he had it.
I think the stereotype comes from the fact that you have to have normal intelligence to get the diagnosis of AS in the first place (the criteria require "no global cognitive delay") and also from us sometimes having formal pedantic speech and special interests.
.....but daydreaming is VERY common among the general population (NTs) as well. It's particularly common with inattentive ADHD and the description of being in your own little world is too.
whirlingmind
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That';s exactly what the research in the book I read said was not true. It was roughly equal (no significant difference). This was research only comparing HF ASD people with NTs. The giftedness correlation is a stereotype. It's a bit annoying because it does encourage some people to think having AS would be cool.....like being labelled a genius. My friend from an ASD support group said someone (NT) actually said to her it'd be really cool to have AS and he wished he had it.
I think the stereotype comes from the fact that you have to have normal intelligence to get the diagnosis of AS in the first place (the criteria require "no global cognitive delay") and also from us sometimes having formal pedantic speech and special interests.
.....but daydreaming is VERY common among the general population (NTs) as well. It's particularly common with inattentive ADHD and the description of being in your own little world is too.
Well all I can say to you is, that one study is not proof. What one person says in one book is not proof. Studies have to be repeated and done so over large populations to be sure. And this still doesn't address my comment
I'm not talking about general daydreaming in the population, I'm talking about the cause behind this particular type of daydreaming and the environment in which it's used. OP said she is often spaced when with people/talking to people or something similar. And you are separating traits out again, we should be looking at the gestalt of OPs traits.
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whirlingmind
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Huh? You can't comment because she didn't describe her childhood? Or, you believe she cannot provide evidence of her childhood to get assessed?
Even with the worst case scenario, that she didn't have access to any childhood info, she could get a DX of PDD-NOS for that reason, if she met the diagnostic criteria with her adult symptoms.
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DX AS & both daughters on the autistic spectrum
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