Thousands of GIRLS may have undiagnosed autism because they

Page 2 of 8 [ 126 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 8  Next

Verdandi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,275
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)

14 Nov 2013, 7:43 pm

Thelibrarian wrote:
Unless and until you can provide me with documented proof from a legitimate, non-feminist source, I will assume that your position is one of Politically Correct faith rather than fact.


Do you think I like you enough to actually want to have a conversation with you about this? I responded to you to point out that you linked a book written by a lying liar who lies. I don't care what you think or what you demand. I care that other people know your BS is BS.

I also linked to a legitimate source in the post immediately following my response to you.

Also, "politically correct" is an insincere label bigots use when whining about how unfair it is that they can't be bigots without people saying "You're being a bigot" to them. It's an intellectually dishonest label that has no meaning that describes reality. It is nothing more than a dog whistle: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dog_whistle_politics



Verdandi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,275
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)

14 Nov 2013, 7:45 pm

Thelibrarian wrote:
Obviously, if a feminist says something it doesn't become untrue. But feminists, as with communists, do have a tortured relationship with the truth. For example, it recently came out that more men are raped than women if prisoners are taken into account. Therefore, while what a feminist says may not be false, I must insist on sources with a better reputation.


^^^

See? What he means here is that he thinks anti-feminist means legitimate.



Thelibrarian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Aug 2012
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,948
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas

14 Nov 2013, 7:46 pm

Verdandi wrote:
Thelibrarian wrote:
Unless and until you can provide me with documented proof from a legitimate, non-feminist source, I will assume that your position is one of Politically Correct faith rather than fact.


Do you think I like you enough to actually want to have a conversation with you about this? I responded to you to point out that you linked a book written by a lying liar who lies. I don't care what you think or what you demand. I care that other people know your BS is BS.

I also linked to a legitimate source in the post immediately following my response to you.

Also, "politically correct" is an insincere label bigots use when whining about how unfair it is that they can't be bigots without people saying "You're being a bigot" to them. It's an intellectually dishonest label that has no meaning that describes reality. It is nothing more than a dog whistle: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dog_whistle_politics


How much you dislike me has no bearing on the facts, which are my only concern. If you can muster something intelligent to say, I'm all ears. But I will not exchange insults with you.

Have a good evening.



Verdandi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,275
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)

14 Nov 2013, 7:48 pm

Thelibrarian wrote:
How much you dislike me has no bearing on the facts, which are my only concern. If you can muster something intelligent to say, I'm all ears. But I will not exchange insults with you.


You are correct. How much I dislike you doesn't change that the facts are in complete contradiction to your claims.

I didn't insult you, but I see that you really can't handle your views being treated with the same respect you grant feminists. I tried to reason with you once, and all you did was play the "men are victims of feminism and women" card over and over again. Do you think I'd just forget and decide you're reasonable if the topic slightly changes?



Last edited by Verdandi on 14 Nov 2013, 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Eloa
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Jun 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,223

14 Nov 2013, 7:55 pm

Verdandi wrote:
Eloa wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
I actually question the assertion that girls can hide it better.

Rather, I would say that autistic behaviors are not taken as seriously in girls, and many of these behaviors are probably viewed differently because people really do view boys' behavior differently than girls' behavior.


Maybe it is not a question of hiding but of presentation as male and female brains differ per se as males are said to have higher systemizing qualities (SQ) and females to have higher "emotional" qualities (EQ) as females are designed to get and raise the offspring (odd thought to me).


I am dubious about this theory, and about the person who advanced it (Simon Baron-Cohen). The SQ/EQ tests do not measure either systemizing or empathy (not emotional) so much as measure things that tend to be scored higher or lower depending upon gender, and scored a particular way if one is autistic.

Quote:
I also read an article that if a girl finally gets diagnosed with autism she is affected mostly quite severe and more severe than in boys.


Yes, because girls and women who are assessed for autism are not taken as seriously as boys and men.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 100410.php

Quote:
When girls with symptoms of autism or ADHD seek professional medical help, their problems are often played down or misinterpreted, and there is a real risk that they will not get the help or support they need. As such, more training is needed in this area, particularly in the public sector, reveals a thesis from the University of Gothenburg.

The thesis focuses primarily on 100 girls who, before reaching adulthood, went to the doctor on account of difficulties with social interaction and/or concentration at school or elsewhere. They were then referred to the paediatric neuropsychiatric clinic at Sahlgrenska University Hospital between 1999 and 2001.

"We could see that their parents had been concerned about the girls' behaviour or development during their first few years of life," says Svenny Kopp, a doctoral student at the Institute of Neuroscience and Physiology at the Sahlgrenska Academy, and consultant paediatric psychiatrist at the Queen Silvia Children's Hospital. "They had also asked for help at an early stage, but hadn't been given a proper diagnosis."

When subsequently given a thorough psychiatric and psychological examination, nearly half of the girls proved to have autism or other autism spectrum disorders, and just as many had ADHD as their main diagnosis. Compared with the control group of 60 girls without any known serious problems, the 100 girls' performance was severely impaired in all areas studied, including psychological, motor and social function.

It also emerged that the girls with autism and ADHD had additional psychiatric and developmental neurological disorders. For example, anxiety, depression, social behaviour

disorders and difficulties reading and writing were common in both groups. Half of the girls with autism spectrum disorders or ADHD had been bullied, were frequently truant and avoided sport at school. The study also showed that girls with ADHD smoked more frequently and more overall than the control group.

"The results are particularly disturbing given that these girls did not generally have a disadvantaged social background and were mostly of normal intelligence," says Kopp.

She concludes that the healthcare system does not take girls with symptoms of autism or ADHD seriously enough."It's a shame as we now have effective treatments for both autism and ADHD. We therefore need more training across the public sector on girls with mental problems, social interaction difficulties and/or attention problems," she stresses.


Thank you for the information.


_________________
English is not my native language, so I will very likely do mistakes in writing or understanding. My edits are due to corrections of mistakes, which I sometimes recognize just after submitting a text.


beneficii
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2005
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,245

14 Nov 2013, 8:18 pm

Thelibrarian wrote:
pleasekillme wrote:
Thelibrarian wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Thelibrarian wrote:
And here is a book that claims that AS is overdiagnosed, particularly in little boys by feminists trying to criminalize and pathologize behavior that used to be considered normal for them:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C0A ... reoneve-20

Is it true? I don't know. What it does suggest is that girls being under-diagnosed is hardly established fact.


I don't know how I missed this.

It is an established fact. It's understood by anyone who follows current research. That book does not represent an equal but opposite opinion. The underdiagnosis is understood to be fact, and that book is nothing more than anti-feminist backlash propaganda.


Unless and until you can provide me with documented proof from a legitimate, non-feminist source, I will assume that your position is one of Politically Correct faith rather than fact.


Are you equating legitimacy with anti-feminism?


Obviously, if a feminist says something it doesn't become untrue. But feminists, as with communists, do have a tortured relationship with the truth. For example, it recently came out that more men are raped than women if prisoners are taken into account. Therefore, while what a feminist says may not be false, I must insist on sources with a better reputation.


Major difference, though, which you are covering up is that men being raped tends to occur in very specific circumstances that most men do not go through. Rape for men is not the pervasive problem that it is for women, and society is not telling men to fear rape (beyond don't drop your soap jokes in prison). I'm transsexual, but growing up as a boy, rape was probably the furthest thing from my mind. For my mother and sister on the other hand, rape was something that they had to have on their mind a lot.



Verdandi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,275
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)

14 Nov 2013, 9:13 pm

Well, also, he's trying to make it seem like feminists are fine with men being raped, but probably the most conscientious activists against men being raped are feminists.

Here's some clearer fact-checking and discussion without trivializing what men in prison go through:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... than-women



ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 38,085
Location: Long Island, New York

14 Nov 2013, 9:48 pm

Back to the original topic. The "condition" was first recognized in boys. The followup studies treatments were based on boys. Diagnosis and treatment was based on how it presented in boys. Groupthink took hold. Only now is it just STARTING to be recognized in adults and females. The science here is in its infancy and there still in a lot of non acceptance among professionals. Services are scarce and treatment still heavily influenced based on treatments tested on boys. We have probably hundreds of posts where people who were just trying to make progress and find out who they are were thrown backwards time and time again because of misdiagnosis at best and have been dismissed if not outright mocked by so called professionals. It's heartbreaking


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 15 Nov 2013, 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

beneficii
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2005
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,245

14 Nov 2013, 10:15 pm

Verdandi wrote:
Well, also, he's trying to make it seem like feminists are fine with men being raped, but probably the most conscientious activists against men being raped are feminists.

Here's some clearer fact-checking and discussion without trivializing what men in prison go through:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... than-women


Good link, and I agree with it.



IntellectualCat
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 24 Oct 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 175

14 Nov 2013, 11:35 pm

I definitely don't hide my symptoms of autism, but I'm pretty sure I wasn't diagnosed until fourth grade. However, that was mainly because my parents didn't know much about autism before that time.



AardvarkGoodSwimmer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,665
Location: Houston, Texas

15 Nov 2013, 12:21 am

Okay, it might be the situation that being shy and having strong opinions about sensory issues and even toe walking is considered more 'normal' for females. In a similar way, in a non-WP discussion about assertiveness training, it was pointed out that a female being nonassertive was viewed as more 'normal.'

And I think good treatment is about expanding a person's range of possibilities in a respectful way without insisting that a person be in a narrow box called 'normal' or anything else. And I wish more professionals took the approach, play to strength, be matter-of-fact about deficiencies.



daydreamer84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jul 2009
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,001
Location: My own little world

15 Nov 2013, 1:26 am

IntellectualCat wrote:
I definitely don't hide my symptoms of autism, but I'm pretty sure I wasn't diagnosed until fourth grade. However, that was mainly because my parents didn't know much about autism before that time.


I wasn't able to hide my symptoms either and I have no talent for mimicry. When I was diagnosed at 13 , I immediately rejected the diagnosis because first of all , tbh, it sounds like" ass burgers" but also, when I did a quick internet search of Asperger's and Autism the descriptions of sufferers sounded completely foreign to me. People with ASD memorized train schedules or an endless string of facts about insects, they had little or no imaginary play as children and didn't like fiction. Well, I'm the opposite of that, my obsessive interest for most of my life was my imaginary world. In fact, I've probably spend more of my life daydreaming and imagining than engaging in any other single activity except possibly sleeping. Maybe that's a little sad..... As an adult, reading fiction became my addiction. When I read Tony Atwood's books about four years ago and learned that his clinical observations revealed that a special interest taking the form of imaginary play pursued in a restrictive, repetitive way was not only possible for ASD kids but very common in girls, I was SO excited. He also observed that many of his female patients had a special interest in reading fiction! After reading his accounts of his female patients and researching "girls with AS" as opposed to just "AS", I can see how the diagnostic criteria apply to me (and they truly do) and can accept the diagnosis and not hate it. Going on this site and reading about others' experiences with ASD helped too and I do relate to some of the guys and not to all of the girls but I think there is a qualitative between the guys and the gals with AS.



pensieve
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,204
Location: Sydney, Australia

15 Nov 2013, 6:24 am

It just a different manifestation of symptoms. My meltdowns calmed down once I reached adolescence. I became withdrawn and was aware what behaviour would be punished. I wasn't picked on but few other girls were nice to me, letting me into their group. I played with boys toys , like full road mats with cities on them that you played matchbox cars on. The boys would hang out with me. I didn't stim past my toddler years until I developed seizures and worsening of autistic symptoms.
There was just not much known about high functioning autism in such a small town too.

My sister told me she thought I was autistic though. Our mum told her to not be so mean.

Now, I know when people are happy, angry or sad. I have strange mimic abilities that make me stand out as unusual than help with social skills but they happen to make me adapt better to the social environment.

If girls do hide autistic symptoms better it's involuntary and may just be something more to do with introversion, and of course there will be girls that don't fit into that group at all. I feel like I have more male autism traits. I'm pretty systematic and stilted in speech. I can be. I'm good at adapting to local slang but when I spend time on physics books my language can become quite formal.

I have a friend that does in depth research into girls underdiagnosed with autism. I'm bombarded with all her research links. I think there is definitely something there.
Girls are even under diagnosed in ADHD. I once had a teacher trying to justify this to me. Yeah, ADHD with the hyper parts may lead to more disruptive behaviour but ADHD-PI (what girls are commonly - but not always- diagnosed with) can be a very serious disorder to be left untreated.


_________________
My band photography blog - http://lostthroughthelens.wordpress.com/
My personal blog - http://helptheywantmetosocialise.wordpress.com/


Joe90
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 26,492
Location: UK

15 Nov 2013, 10:36 am

I'm an Aspie female and I don't really have any of the common stereotypes. I am not superior in math, science or technology (those are the 3 main subjects I struggled with in school).
I don't pace about and flap my hands and I don't rock backwards and forwards, I never have done any of those common Autistic stims even as a young child.
I don't need everything explained to me crystal clearly, in fact I get bored or stressed out if people explain things to me in every little detail.
I have more emotions and irrational thoughts and common sense than I do logic.
I don't have any odd sleeping or eating habits.
I was potty-trained by age 2 and a half, and never looked back.
I have good hygiene and good sense of fashion style.
I don't go non-verbal when reacting to stressful situations, and I can express my feelings (in fact I do it too much).

And many more stereotypes I don't have. I can hide my AS, the only thing what I do display often is the anxiety. I can come across as timid, shy and nervous, but that does not scream out AS to others. You can be nervy and shy without having AS. Also I'm not a genius in anything, I'm just average. I think being too genius in things can actually give away Autism sometimes.


_________________
Female


Quill
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Aug 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 764

15 Nov 2013, 11:15 am

I certainly didn't hide my symptoms, though I lacked some of the big stereotypical stuff. I had a good imagination, I was very loving and cuddly, I had no big/obvious stims, and math was my worst subject. However, I did have a lot of major sensory issues (especially with clothing, loud sounds, bright lights, and smells), I had a hard time making friends and relating to my peers, I didn't make eye contact, I had auditory processing issues, I had meltdowns, I had some small stims (like standing on the sides of my feet and twisting my fingers), I had a hard time understanding the concept of teasing and not taking it seriously, I had some fine motor difficulties (took me forever to learn to tie my shoes), and I could go on and on about the same topic for months (usually animals). I'm still like that now, for the most part.

I saw a psychiatrist for the first time when I was in kindergarten, and I was promptly misdiagnosed and put on antidepressants, which did nothing. I don't know if my misdiagnosis had anything to do with me being female or not. It might be worth mentioning that the person who diagnosed me seemed kind of confused by me and my behavior (according to some things my mother told me when I first started considering going for an ASD evaluation as an adult), so maybe he just wasn't educated on ASDs. It was also only a year after Asperger's had been introduced in the DSM, though I continued to go there for counseling until I was 15 or 16, so you'd think they would have realized. Oh well, I guess it doesn't really matter now.



IreneS
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 18 Oct 2013
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 196
Location: Sweden

15 Nov 2013, 12:42 pm

I think my autism wasn´t discovered at a young age on the account of me hiding some symptoms (I was convinced that I was going to be put away in a mental institution if I displayed behaviour that differed too much from that of my peers ´cause I´d seen some movie about a schizophrenic woman) and because virtually no one knew anything about Asperger´s or HFA were I lived. My ADHD (not officially diagnosed because my doctor didn´t find it necessary) on the otherhand I think wasn´t discovered because I´m a girl.