Jerry Newport's Views on male to female AS ratio

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Well, all English majors could be said to obsess on characters if you are talking analyzing. I mean, that is the object of English classes. I would say the closest I came was Benji in Falkner's Sound and the Fury. I don't know if I obsessed on him, but I did think he was one of the best characters ever. It made me want to sit in Falkner's head while he wrote about him.

I hadn't thought about the people thing at all. I'll watch aspects of people if I want to use them for character fodder, but not the whole person unless I find them interesting and want to be friends.

But, I find both of these to be true of males in English classes and male writers.

I've noticed on the board that just as many men internalize their problems and want to cause self harm. It makes me wonder if the findings are being skewed by the lens through which they view them.

Here's what I mean. If you see my face, it is almost always completely impassive. Yet, people read that as the deer in the headlights look and they either want to protect me or stalk me. Very rarely do they see it as cold and uncaring. I wonder if they see this exact same impassive face on a male and see it as cold and unfeeling, which internally they equate with serial killers, sociopaths, etc. and they respond with fear and loathing based on that.

Then, there are meltdowns. If I had a meltdown it would probably be perceived as PMS first and foremost or a woman having "emotional issues" (you know, broke up with her boyfriend, etc.). If a man had the exact same meltdown, he would be perceived as having acute mental problems. You have to think of them as exactly the same for this to work.

It would be interesting to do this in public and see just exactly how the public would react. It would be even more interesting to do this to a Psychologist and see how it is diagnosed. I guarantee that the diagnosis would be completely different. That's because Psychiatry is based on subjective observation and not objective things like MRIs and PET scans. What they know about your brain wouldn't fit into the head of a needle to be extremely frank about it.

Last edited by ZanneMarie on 13 Feb 2007, 9:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I worked at a convinience store last year, and I swear sometimes it felt like 1 out of 3 people would ask me "what's wrong?" or something like that, no matter what mood I was in. To me, when I look in the mirror, my face looks impassive, but other people tell me I look intimidating or pissed off. I'd bet you it's the same expression you're describing, ZanneMarie. One time at a party I met a girl who I think was schizophrenic that had the same expression, and my friends all found it really intriguing and all went over to go talk to her, even though she would hardly respond to any attempts they made at trying to initiate conversation. So I'm definately inclined to agree with you on the interpretation of impassive expressions.

When I was younger, around elementary school, I had a tendency to obsess over characters, which on some outside part of my brain I had thought was something a girl would do. that's actually a really interesting concept. the impression I get from reading these forums is that a lot of girl aspies do do that, but on the other hand, there's the example of guys who are say Final Fantasy fans trying to identify with the hero Cloud, which could constitute an obsession. RPGs seem to work that way, engrossing people so much with the characters that they want to live through them, and more often video gamers are guys. For me, ever since middle school, my obsessions have always been with certain systems, techniques, and concepts.

There are also guys who dress up like pirates, mideival knights and civil war soldiers. The civil war guys run around the country and fight mock battles. Then, there are the role playing games like D&D of old and the newer versions of that. All of that is character obsessing on some level.


I'm just not convinced that it's truly the symptom that is different. I think it's the observation of the symptom that is different. I also think that's the diagnosis.

What a concept. If, for example, psychology's view of the differences between the sexes boiled down to empathy and systemization, and it was noticed that in a specific girl systemization eclipsed empathy, there would still be something "wrong" with her if she behaved more like a boy is supposed to... Argh, I can't really get that thought out properly, but I understand your meaning.

Which is exactly where I run into trouble at work. You and I could write the exact same email saying this is the problem. Blah blah blah. I don't use any niceties when I write. I don't use adjectives or adverbs. I just state it. Guess what? I get called in because some woman has complained it is harsh, abrasive and unfeeling. Her little feelings got hurt. I'm a b***h. Blah blah blah. If you wrote it, she wouldn't even bat a lash. I know because I work with techno geeks who also write that way and are mostly men. Guess what? They never hear this and I never have problems with them. Very, very occasionally, I will run into a guy who says this crap, but it is rare.

It's so bad that I'm used to seeing it on reviews.


So, I think you are right on the money there. That is perception of the symptom, but it is a perception and it is not objective at all. Male and female still respond the same, the perception of the behavior by others is colored by their sexism.

Heh. Ironically, as I was reading that, I was thinking that I really like your writing style.

Well, thank you. I'm glad I didn't hurt your feelings. LOL


I still think I'm right about women Aspies and men as well. If you treat sex on an intellectual and logical level, but not an emotional one, I doubt men are going to mind. I really don't see that holding a woman back from a relationship with any man. But, tell that to a Psychiatrist and you are going to have all kinds of issues. Just another way their sexism would skew reading a symptom.

And, if the opposite were true and the woman was so overly sensitive to touch that she disliked sex or thought about sex to the point of asexuality, it would be perceived as frigid and unwomanly. In a man, that would be seen as coldness or even sexual dysfunction. I can imagine those problems are misdiagnosed and treated incorrectly all the time.

Face it, we live on an alien planet. We're just all trying to survive here with the NTs. Occasionally, that can be like death through well meaning sympathy. And, I do mean occasionally, so please do not overreact posters.

In general, true.



Word. In some cases, we are "disciplined" and shamed into being compliant, not to cause trouble, and as far as being pleasant, that was a trick I couldn't pull off. I still don't know what that means.



I don't know if this is truly possible for AS females to do. "Unobtrusive" might be a better word.



I think that's partly true, but I also believe that when the symptoms of this internalization come out as depression, delusions, etc., women and girls are diagnosed as something else, such as schizotypal personality disorder, schizophrenia, borderline personality disorder, etc.



I don't think this is true. I think we end up being taken care of through other avenues, either by parents, husbands/boyfriends for those who are high enough functioning to attract one, or we end up on disability with other diagnosis. I am not sure how disabled most people on this board are, but being misdx with BPD not only delayed effective treatment, the stigma of that dx put me through hell as few mental health providers would deal with me. I lost most of my life to my family putting me down, self-hatred, self-doubt, and knowing something was wrong, but not knowing what that was. I could never have a romantic relationship because I don't know what the hell that is, I lost friends because I didn't know how to maintain a friendship, I couldn't understand why social interaction sucked the life force out of me, and I needed three times the time I spent struggling being around others just to recharge...and on and on.

Now maybe some AS women have some kind of innate female qualities, but I'm not one of them.



6. Women in our society are not thought of as dysfunctional if they "choose" not to work and instead stay home; men, on the other hand, are still often thought of as strange or inferior if they can't enter the work force, and very few have the option of being supported by a working wife while they stay at home. (This one does tie in to what Jerry says.)[/quote]

I think this is right on. And extremely unfair to men. While staying home to take of the house may not have the value it really deserves, it has value that is so often trivialized. There's this "macho" ideal that's killing our guys, and it needs to change. And taking care of children needs to be valued, and if guys with AS can do that, they should be able to.

Asperger's is a bit more diverse than is acknowledged in the neurological field, and we need more research into it, especially if it's as prevalent as it is, and it would be interesting to see what the adult numbers are.

I bet the ratio is closer to fifty/fify.

Metta, Rjaye.

I would have to disagree on 6. I think 6 is only true if you have children. I didn't work the first three years I was with my husband, two of which we were married. I'll tell you right now that was frowned upon because I was not nuturing or domestic. So the idea that I wanted to stay at home and write every day all day was not acceptable at all. This was compounded by the fact that I didn't know or care what was in the house to eat or to clean with and by the fact that I adamantly did not want children. It was never acceptable for me to not work under those circumstances and called a great deal of attention to how "strange" I was and how my husband should not "put up" with this behavior. I eventually felt sorry for him and went to work even though my life's ambition was to be Emily Dickinson and I really felt no obligation to do anything whatsoever for society. Actually, I don't think I thought about society much at all to be honest. I was attached to my husband and felt bad that they were acting like this toward him. As far as how they felt about me? I could have cared less as long as they left me alone to write.

"6" probably varies depending on where you live and your situation, I'd imagine.

The Idea in #6 USED to be the NORM in the US.

Exactly, but it isn't any longer. And even when it was, my behavior would not have been acceptable at all. In fact, it would have been reprehensible.

That sounds good Steve, but unrealistic for an Aspie woman. An Aspie woman asked to dictate social events, etc. would be in extreme anxiety which would not go over well for a successful man's career. If she didn't flat out refuse to do it and actually went through with it, she could have a meltdown in the middle of the whole thing and put a big black mark on his career. I would imagine many of these women became the victims of mother's little helpers in the 50's and 60's. They were probably living in the Valley of the Dolls.

I can't even imagine having a child. The condition of my marriage was that he couldn't even bring up the subject or I would divorce him. I can't even be around children and couldn't manage it well when I was a child. They move around alot and make alot of noise, both of which make me crazy. At best, I would lock myself in a room away from them. At worst, I would have just driven away. The only thing children evoke in me is anxiety.

So, on both counts, that kind of marriage would be a disaster. Still, Aspie women can and do find men. I'm living proof that they will put up with doing all the domestic chores and the complete impossibility of children, not to mention all my social phobias and ineptitude.

Yep, that was me, too.


Precisely. Neurological differences are only one part of who we are. Environment and social expectations and conditioning still affect us; we're not impenetrable fortresses of AS who are immune to all influence from the prevailing milieu.

I cut my wrists in my mid high school years to deal with the overload of stress and misery.

Also, I was not ever the nurturing kind before I had my daughter. Even now, she is the only person to whom I am nurturing. And I am nurturing to her not because it's some kind of inborn trait, but because it is my responsibility to her to raise her in as loving, secure environment as I can possibly provide. I never would have thought before I had her that I could be so patient or so attentive to another human being; it's still amazing to me sometimes when I stop and think about it.

It's no longer the norm, but it is still considered acceptable and among most people would not raise an eyebrow. Of course there are some people who just think everyone should have a paying job, and I have encountered this every now and then (usually some guy who says, "Well, MY wife wouldn't just stay home, she can go out and make some money!") but their opinion means exactly nothing to me.

I don't really have that much contact with other people, so perhaps I just don't know what their opinions are. But I stayed home even before I had my daughter and most people didn't care (some thought it "old-fashioned"). Now, of course, it is easier to explain that I am a full-time mother. Even though some people may not "approve" of my choice, it is still a socially acceptable one.