Effective punishment for aggressive child? Help please

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ZombieBrideXD
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11 Oct 2014, 8:33 pm

I am and was an EXTREMELY aggressive person when i get meltdowns, and i find Pressure helps a lot, during my meltdowns my dad holds down my arms and pins me down with immense pressure, i find that helps me, Pacing helps me as well, controlling my breathing, crying, screaming, but meltdowns STILL happen, and i still get aggressive, but now i know to leave the room, usually go outside and yell, throw things, hit my head (try to avoid that though) and eventually i calm down.

there shouldn't be punishment, just let him realize there can be BAD consequences to hurting someone or breaking something, i had to learn the hard way, i got arrested and broke some of my favourite belongings, i even hurt myself pretty bad a few times. eventually i learned i can't hit people, and i can't destroy my room, even if its hard to control it, i still try my best to eliminate myself from valuables and people when i'm in a Rumble stage.


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Waterfalls
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11 Oct 2014, 9:38 pm

I think there is a temptation to believe that the clinic staff and parents should, and can, punish enough to teach the child to control his meltdowns in order to protect from the kind of consequences ZombieBride is referring to. However, the take home point for me from the last two posts is that when the people who should take care of us are the ones to inflict the degree of terror necessary to control meltdowns, that isn't how human beings should treat each other. What I'm saying is that I do not believe mild and acceptable punishments of the type you seem to be looking for are going to be effective for a meltdown. It will be hard to stop once you start down the road of being punitive. This isn't obviously going to be like the parent swatting a 3 year old who grabs at the hot stove and the child learns never to do that again and is spared a world of pain and scarring. Carefully looking at what comes before and after meltdowns and changing what adults do after that may inadvertantly be rewarding (like the deep pressure of being held or perhaps the being left alone) is what should happen. And there's nothing wrong with taking things away.



little_blue_jay
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12 Oct 2014, 2:29 am

Waterfalls wrote:
Carefully looking at what comes before and after meltdowns


This is exactly what I thought. Is there any way the sessions can be taped and reviewed after a meltdown or a hitting incident? It could be something simple that nobody would think to look at - a certain person walking into the room, someone wearing a perfume he dislikes, too much of a certain colour, etc. Keep the tapes of the incidents, after a few more have happened review them all one after another, and perhaps a pattern will emerge.

Just a thought.


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12 Oct 2014, 6:22 am

I don't feel punishing him is the right answer given the behavior is triggered by a medical condition, it sounds more triggered by sensory related issues. How old is he and what else sets him off? I know it's difficult for some people to grasp because when you see someone acting out anger on others, we assume it's then misbehaving, and we feel discipline is the answer. I feel it sends the wrong message because I doubt he's acting on anger for any other reason than sensory overload, which is out of his control and in no way his fault. I think the best solution is to isolate him in a sensory-friendly room, especially with less noise because it sounds like noise could be a big trigger for him, this would give him time to calm down and wouldn't increase his anger. At the same time though, he needs to understand it's not okay to hit others for any reason, so it still needs to be addressed.


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Louise88
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12 Oct 2014, 10:06 am

Never let him be around babies. Seems a pretty simple solution. Don't take him to places where there will be babies. Leave immediately if a baby arrives. I can't stand babies either and would probably be in danger of hurting them if I had to be near one for too long ( I can obviously control myself better than a child, but I wouldn't want to be with one for more than about 15 minutes without getting agitated). It isn't just the crying, it's the smell ( all new mothers know babies have a baby smell, usually emanating from the head, which most people find cute. I find it nauseating. There is also the smell of piss s**t and vomit frequently around babies, and the gurgle and laughing noises and the stupid voices of parents talking to babies are all things that make me very agitated.

You say you don't know what is precipitating this, but you do: it's babies in general. Just avoid them until he is older, when hopefully the sensory impact will be less intense or he will be able to find ways of managing his discomfort.



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12 Oct 2014, 1:12 pm

Quote:
Hello there everyone! So I work at a clinic for autism and my main case is a boy who is just a blast to work with and is generally well behaved but about once every 1.5ish months he has a meltdown that is accompanied by a lot of physical aggression towards those around him. On top of that, even when he appears to be in a good mood, he sporadically will try to run up and hit smaller children or infants (even babies, yikes!) on the head. It's very unpredictable when he will do this (a baby might be bothering him by crying but at other time his parents won't even know there's a baby around before he rushes for them). The clinic I'm at has tried for years to redirect this behavior and reinforce alternatives to aggressive behavior but it is getting to a point where he is getting big and strong enough to do some actual damage and this could potentially land his awesome parents in legal trouble if he hurts someone in public.

That being said, we have to resort to harsher measures and we are beginning an analysis to see which punishments are most effective at eliminating this behavior. What I would like additional input on is what ideas do you guys have for a punishment but could easily be delivered in any setting? Currently, when he shows aggression we are planning on possibly utilizing a loud buzzer, perhaps spraying his face with water mist, squirting pickle juice in his mouth, and hopefully we won't have to resort to this but if nothing improves we may have to resort to having a therapist or two just give him a bear hug and restrain him until he calms down. I absolutely hate the idea that we might have to do any of this but it really is in the kid's best interest to get his aggression under control and no positive alternatives for his aggression have worked Sad My supervisors and I are brainstorming as much as we can but I figured it never hurts to ask all the people of the internet for any further suggestions on what could work as a punisher. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!


Quote:
Carefully looking at what comes before and after meltdowns


This is exactly what I thought. Is there any way the sessions can be taped and reviewed after a meltdown or a hitting incident? It could be something simple that nobody would think to look at - a certain person walking into the room, someone wearing a perfume he dislikes, too much of a certain colour, etc. Keep the tapes of the incidents, after a few more have happened review them all one after another, and perhaps a pattern will emerge.



I think the trigger might be the emotion "Jealousy". When I was younger I had the same problem and would consistently hit my little brother "I feel terrible because of it" whenever he got more attention then I did. I will try not to go off topic, ramble or list the times that I did this.

Effective Treatment would include giving him more attention when he is around other People, Sitting down to talk to him about his emotions and how different things make him feel. However don't pressure him to respond if he does not want to. He may not understand what his emotions are or what they mean so also explaining how you feel when different things happen to you and what you do when you feel these things could be of great help to him "Go into great detail when you explain what your emotions are".

Ineffective Treatment Any sort of punishment that makes him feel like he is going to get hurt when he is around other People or anything that pressures him to respond in a certain way as "You want him to feel safe and secure with himself to overcome the jealousy". Also don't say that what he is feeling is inappropriate but rather try to address that his actions are inappropriate and show him what the appropriate actions are and he will learn by your example.
If you do punish him it will make things much worse and he might start to punish other people. If you do punish him You would effectively teach him that punishing others is the correct way of resolving something that makes him feel bad or if he thinks that the behaviour of the other People/Person in question is inappropriate. For an example he might decide that a baby who is crying is acting inappropriately because "He has been punished when he was crying".

I hope this helps.



VioletYoshi
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12 Oct 2014, 10:28 pm

Louise88 wrote:
Never let him be around babies. Seems a pretty simple solution. Don't take him to places where there will be babies. Leave immediately if a baby arrives. I can't stand babies either and would probably be in danger of hurting them if I had to be near one for too long ( I can obviously control myself better than a child, but I wouldn't want to be with one for more than about 15 minutes without getting agitated). It isn't just the crying, it's the smell ( all new mothers know babies have a baby smell, usually emanating from the head, which most people find cute. I find it nauseating. There is also the smell of piss s**t and vomit frequently around babies, and the gurgle and laughing noises and the stupid voices of parents talking to babies are all things that make me very agitated.

You say you don't know what is precipitating this, but you do: it's babies in general. Just avoid them until he is older, when hopefully the sensory impact will be less intense or he will be able to find ways of managing his discomfort.


I was glad you posted this, I was disturbed by how many people failed to recognize how dangerous this boy's behavior is. I realized recently I have PTSD since as a child I was told to understand other special ed students who would menace me. Having Autism should not excuse behavior that terrifies others. I feel more for the child who might get hit by this boy, the child who will be made to feel guilty for defending themselves against him, and the parent who instead of receiving empathy with their child told a sob story about the boy making their child terrified of school.

No child should be blamed or punished for defending themselves. No child should be trained to be submissive in the face of intentional or unintentional abuse. Teaching children to empathize and understand abusive students is how you raise a child to become the victim of abuse. It's also psychological abuse to convince a student that the abusive behavior of students around them is normal. Or that a child is a liar to cover and hide that they were abused by a disturbed student. I had special ed aids gaslight me, tell me what I witnessed was not what happened. That I was always misunderstanding things. This made me unabld to trust my own perspective of reality. All because my suffering was worth it if it meant a disturbed student made progress.

This is why my understanding isn't with a boy who endangers others, it's with those he may harm. Apparently the saying if they are a harm to themselves or others they should be kept away isn't PC anymore. I hope more kids are taking self-defense classes.



Louise88
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13 Oct 2014, 3:10 pm

Actually I have a lot of sympathy with the boy who is doing the harming. Babies are an assault on the senses for a lot of autistic people, and to be honest I find it kind of antisocial that people bring them out in public. As a parent those people signed up to have a screaming s**tbag following with them the whole time. I didn't. When I say "keep him away from babies" I don't mean lock him up. I just mean don't take him to family type areas, and leave if there is a baby. If he was an adult he would probably be doing that himself already anyway.



League_Girl
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13 Oct 2014, 10:28 pm

VioletYoshi wrote:
Louise88 wrote:
Never let him be around babies. Seems a pretty simple solution. Don't take him to places where there will be babies. Leave immediately if a baby arrives. I can't stand babies either and would probably be in danger of hurting them if I had to be near one for too long ( I can obviously control myself better than a child, but I wouldn't want to be with one for more than about 15 minutes without getting agitated). It isn't just the crying, it's the smell ( all new mothers know babies have a baby smell, usually emanating from the head, which most people find cute. I find it nauseating. There is also the smell of piss s**t and vomit frequently around babies, and the gurgle and laughing noises and the stupid voices of parents talking to babies are all things that make me very agitated.

You say you don't know what is precipitating this, but you do: it's babies in general. Just avoid them until he is older, when hopefully the sensory impact will be less intense or he will be able to find ways of managing his discomfort.


I was glad you posted this, I was disturbed by how many people failed to recognize how dangerous this boy's behavior is. I realized recently I have PTSD since as a child I was told to understand other special ed students who would menace me. Having Autism should not excuse behavior that terrifies others. I feel more for the child who might get hit by this boy, the child who will be made to feel guilty for defending themselves against him, and the parent who instead of receiving empathy with their child told a sob story about the boy making their child terrified of school.

No child should be blamed or punished for defending themselves. No child should be trained to be submissive in the face of intentional or unintentional abuse. Teaching children to empathize and understand abusive students is how you raise a child to become the victim of abuse. It's also psychological abuse to convince a student that the abusive behavior of students around them is normal. Or that a child is a liar to cover and hide that they were abused by a disturbed student. I had special ed aids gaslight me, tell me what I witnessed was not what happened. That I was always misunderstanding things. This made me unabld to trust my own perspective of reality. All because my suffering was worth it if it meant a disturbed student made progress.

This is why my understanding isn't with a boy who endangers others, it's with those he may harm. Apparently the saying if they are a harm to themselves or others they should be kept away isn't PC anymore. I hope more kids are taking self-defense classes.


That sounds like an awful experience there. My school wanted to put me in a behavior program once and in there would have been aggressive kids and I would have learned to do the aggression because I had always mimicked people and to me that would have been normal behavior. It would have made me act worse and solve problems the aggressive way and I probably would have taken that behavior home before realizing "oops school behavior." Somehow my AS diagnoses stopped them from being able to do this.

Of my times I have been in special ed, I have only known one student who was aggressive and I was relieved when he wasn't in my class again when I was seven. When I was 15 and 16, I knew a boy with ODD and he was aggressive and he had been in and out of hospitals, I suspect he may have had conduct disorder. He was even kicked out of school for his aggression so he went to a special school and he picked on others there and my ex boyfriend got some of it too from him so he used to pick him up and throw him on the ground. Sounds like you had a traumatic experience where the majority were violent or were there some? Were lot of them violent or just the minority?

The boy in my class did get in trouble for his abusive behaviors and the time he threw chairs in class, he was in the office for the rest of the day. He never did that again. The other boy, he always got in trouble too for his abuse but he got away with it at home with his mother. He was less abusive with his father because he didn't let him do it. But yet in school he would keep on doing it no matter how many times he was punished. It was like he had split personalities because he would act different at each place or with each person.

It's also politically incorrect to not want your kids near an aggressive child if they have a *gasp* disability or a mental illness. I guess people don't have rights to a safe environment huh? :roll:


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13 Oct 2014, 10:46 pm

I don't think it's really possible to "control" meltdowns, but autistic people can learn to avoid them. You should identify the situations where this happens and teach him an alternative, a way to remove himself from the stressful situation. If a meltdown starts, same thing, remove him from the situation, let him be alone for a while - not as a punishment, but to regain his equilibrium. They can punish him later by removing privileges if necessary, and talk to him about his behavior, but in my experience as an autistic mom of autistic kids, peace and quiet is the quickest cure (and best prevention) for a meltdown.



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13 Oct 2014, 10:48 pm

League_Girl I don't understand what you mean at the end of your message. I have Asperger's Syndrome.



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13 Oct 2014, 10:51 pm

VioletYoshi wrote:
League_Girl I don't understand what you mean at the end of your message. I have Asperger's Syndrome.



Please quote what you don't understand.


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VioletYoshi
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13 Oct 2014, 10:56 pm

League_Girl wrote:
It's also politically incorrect to not want your kids near an aggressive child if they have a *gasp* disability or a mental illness. I guess people don't have rights to a safe environment huh? :roll:



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13 Oct 2014, 11:02 pm

VioletYoshi wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
It's also politically incorrect to not want your kids near an aggressive child if they have a *gasp* disability or a mental illness. I guess people don't have rights to a safe environment huh? :roll:


People get upset and frown upon others saying how they want an aggressive child out of their kid's classroom or when parents want an aggressive child out of their kids school or when people say how an aggressive child shouldn't be around others. They call it discrimination.

I was being sarcastic about how people don't have the rights to a safe environment because I do think they have the rights to a safe environment.


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VioletYoshi
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13 Oct 2014, 11:03 pm

League_Girl wrote:
It's also politically incorrect to not want your kids near an aggressive child if they have a *gasp* disability or a mental illness. I guess people don't have rights to a safe environment huh? :roll:



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13 Oct 2014, 11:04 pm

League_Girl wrote:
VioletYoshi wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
It's also politically incorrect to not want your kids near an aggressive child if they have a *gasp* disability or a mental illness. I guess people don't have rights to a safe environment huh? :roll:


People get upset and frown upon others saying how they want an aggressive child out of their kid's classroom or when parents want an aggressive child out of their kids school or when people say how an aggressive child shouldn't be around others. They call it discrimination.

I was being sarcastic about how people don't have the rights to a safe environment because I do think they have the rights to a safe environment.


Thanks, I get it now.