Do ALL people with AS have above average intelligence?

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Yeah, I was surprised to hear that about Attwood. I thought Gilberg REQUIRED it but, by not excluding it, he includes probably most HFA people into it. In fact, I don't think there is anything that would keep HFA people from qualifying.

Professor Attwood sees HFA and AS as the same thing; I agree with him more times than not. I suppose that HFA and AS don't differ all that much when they're placed next to individuals with LFA.

I like Gillberg's criteria for its similarity to Asperger's work; it's also not as broad as the DSM (you need an all absorbing interest for example, which is one of the hallmarks of Asperger's).

ppl wid AS can have either normal or above intelligence i would say i have normal cos im quite clever but i don't classified meself as a genius as im not always 100% correct.

I wouldn't put equals sign between intelligence as such (that is ability to make synthesis combining single elements: ideas, hints which are to be organised into something having quite new, higher quality; capability of free thinking without taking obsolete systems for granted) and simply having knowledge of many topics (even very wide one).

Of course, being a person capable of bringing up many various subjects in conversation usually indicates above average intelligence but it's not a rule because it may as well indicate only a person who has really good memory but is not characterized by any special creativity. I guess that many ASers have barely average intelligence but they're generally considered much smarter because of conviction rooted for centuries in humans heads that intelligence is the same what knowledge. Now access to knowledge concerning practically all fields of science is easy while before only those who were naturally smart could study - and the rich, of course, but in many cases those two notions used to overlap each other because wealthy parents who didn't need to spend practically all their time working and living life not much differing from an animals' could stimulate their progeny's intellectual development.

Not at all. Anyway, when they test intelligence, IQ tests are relatively primitive so an Aspie may have off the charts spatial/math/verbal ability, but no practical intelligence. IQ tests are just how well you can perform tricks, so it stands to reason that Aspies, who for the most part have some degree of savantism (considering our talents and interest in one area or another) will score exceptionally well. I don't think that all Aspies are actually truly intelligent in a meaningful sense (what society would call "bright" or "quick" in general, as opposed to "genius" or other related terms, which usually implies a strong ability in certain areas).

Although it is popularly publisized that People with AS have a high intelligence, the vast amount of us (including myself) are average. What I have been told is that it is nearly impossible to aquire an accurate IQ score for an Aspie because we vary greatly between subjects. I am brilliant at art and music, but I am terrible at maths and anything social!

This is another variation on the age old question of how do we measure intelligence? We all know the standard way is crap.

It's fairly subjective. I have kids on the spectrum on my case load that are obviously brillian but qualified as MIMH. Go figure.

You can have above-average intelligence, but not feel like to do...(it's a self-esteem thing)....That is sorta the way I feel about myself...My IQ is above "average"...But I don't feel particularly intelligent....Because I am so dysfunctional at so many "normal adult things"..like driving and interracting...etc....

and when I was a kid in scool, I was bad at all my classes.

It was the structure of the class itsself and the assignments that I didn't always understand.
I always felt so overwhealmed in school that I might as well not have been there. I absorbed all my knowledge from books and PBS outside of school...and then wound up with the highest scores in the school on the standardised tests...despite dismal crappy grades...and feeling stupid all the time...(but even if you don't excell at the standardised tests..s'no big deal)

Last edited by poopylungstuffing on 04 Jan 2008, 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

seconded what Brittany2907 said,above 75 can give a diagnosis of AS,go and argue with the professionals who diagnosed George Barry [IQ of 76] if don't believe it.

Does the original poster mean:

a. Do you have to have a high IQ to be diagnosed

or

b. Are people with aspergers inherantly more intelligent - because of their aspergers.

Other people have tackled part a. As for part b, the idea seems rather silly to me. It may infer certain strengths, and god knows some people on this forum are so intelligent it's actually very intimidating - I certainly don't view my IQ, (140) as anything special any more. But then I think a lot of us fall in the normal range, ain't nothing wrong with that. As an aside, I think its perfectly possible to have aspie/autist pride without having to believe that we're all of above average intelligence.

no but AS does carry the stipulation of having at least average inteliigence

I will, because an IQ of 76 is almost LFA (70 is the threshold for an intellectual disability - and 76 is closer to that than the average (90).

Brittany - the average range is between 80 and 100. Anyone above 100 is above average. Anyone who is diagnosed with AS and is below 100 needs a second opinion, because IMO the AS DX is wrong. It should be PDD-NOS.

Daniel - Gilberg's work is at diagnostic level, and only diagnostic level. Attwood goes much wider. The only speech impediment (as such) in a toddler with Aspergers is the silence. But it's a requirement (sorry Daniel, but you are wrong and 2ukenkerl is right as is Gilberg). In adults, there are no speech impediments in Aspergers - there's a natural recovery. There are in HFA adults, but Attwood knows that correctly treated childhood HFA's can function at exactly the same level as Aspies as adults. The difference between the two in adults under those circumstances are barely discernable.



That's why such a comment needs to be taken out and altered - and I hope the DSM-V (which is apparently on it's way) fixes that up. That interpretation is stopping the correct DX of Aspergers. The old standard is correct.

It probably applies to different people with as.
I mean i am rubbish at maths, I hate french (but probably because i hate the teacher) not very good at science either (i find it sooo boring)

But i am good at english, and Okay at History, and HE.

People with as have their own strengths.

You guys have more recent schooling than I do, I think. When I was in college (25 years ago or more) we were told average was 90-110, 111-125 (approx) was above average and 126-149 was gifted. 150 and up was genius... but I seem to recall that Mensa defines genius as 140? Or do they just start admitting members at 140 now?

Regardless, I've known Aspie's (and HFA's, I always feel we're basically the same) who ranged from under 90, to some up in the 160's. I think the test given makes a huge difference. Some tests have a huge verbal component, or depend on verbal instruction. Other's are strictly non-verbal. Some of us tend to do better on one, some on the other. I'm a visual thinker, I can "get" math, but it's not intuitive for me the way it is for my best friend, which is probably why he's a programmer and I'm more of a writer. When I read, the story plays out in my mind as I read it, almost like a miniseries. I think some of us end up in Hollywood directing movies because we think that way. Not being strong in math, may have nothing to do with your intelligence, but with the way you think and where your strengths are. For example, while math is not my strong suit, doing accounting and reconciling accounts is very easy for me, I "see' patterns in the columns of numbers and it makes it easy for me to find errors. I don't know why, I can just do it.

Regardless of our "IQ" I think we show an lack of emotional intelligence, especially with regard to understanding NT's. I can read a fellow Aspie's emotions MUCH more easily than I can an NT. Does anybody else find that to be the case?

Funny. I'm the same vintage, and yet that differs from what I was taught. But then, Dave, you're in the US and I'm in Australia - so I guess that may be the reason for the difference. Mensa brought the genius level down to attract more members - if what you said is true (I have no way of knowing to be honest about Mensa).

It doesn't surprise me in the least that different places taught different things. And at that, it was a "liberal arts only" college that could only offer Bachelor of Arts, we didn't have enough science classes to offer a Bachelor's of Science. The Mensa number was something I caught in passing, I did not check their site. Frankly, most of the Mensa people I dealt with bugged the hell out of me on some subliminal level and I never joined it. Of course, being an Aspie, joining anything other than small group of roleplaying gamers for regular D&D sessions was pretty much more than I was willing to do. Even with FFXI Online, I play a Beastmaster, virtually the only "solo" job in the game.