Consciousness as a field.

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Fascinating! I will have to read more on this.

what i dont get.... if the generators were really random... there is always a random chance of them producing a number so big, that it would take an infinite amount of time to list... so i doubt that's happening, so they must impose a number set of sorts.... and in doing that, you have therefore removed real randomness.

It reminds me of the hundred monkeys.

They lived on an island off Japan, and were being studied, for some reason they fed them. they dropped sweet potatos on the beach from a hilocopter. Most likely to get them in the open to observe.

They ate, and one later went to the water and washed the sand from their potato. Another watched a few times, then tried it. They taught others, but most ate sandy potatos.

Change came slowly. One by one more took to washing the potatos. This was all studied and documented.

Toward the end, there was a sudden change, they all became washers. the last holdouts became sudden converts. It was a large group, and the rate of change went up as more took on the new way.

When 100 monkeys were all washing potatos, all of the monkeys on another island, miles away, who had never washed their potatoes, all started washing them at once.

I was not there, but it is claimed to be a true story, the hundreth monkey.

Inventor, wow! Do you have any links for that? I love reading stories like that.. I've been trying to read more about that story... but not able to find anything yet. I'd like to know if that's true or not.. that WOULD be collective unconscious? where somehow the awareness and knowledge basically traveled psychically through the "airwaves" ..?

Some say the internet is starting to do that too? like a psychic conduit or sorts...?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/05/09/phys ... index.html

Here's a link about a Modern-day "Einstein" who feels that there are ELEVEN dimensions!

Nima Arkani-Hamed works at the same place Einstein worked at (1933 until his death in 1955) The Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, New Jersey.

Interesting stuff..

it sounds a little bit like some of rupert sheldrake's ideas. i find sheldrake interesting, even though he has been fairly ridiculed by the scientific establishment.

Wiki claims it is urban legand,

hundredth monkey brought up a lot, original from Japanese Journal, Primates.

A target of sceptics who have debunked the sun shines during the day, because everything you say is wrong, the sun shines at night on the other side of the planet.

One claimed that only the young monkeys learned the new ways, or that one who knew swam between islands. So it seems the study was published, and potato washing did spread.

Because it was used as a motivational concept, it must be new age garbage. Buddah was a bit before new age and taught that raising awareness was raising all of life, that something resided behind the material, an energy structure that was growing. "Behold, the jewel is in the Lotus."

That awareness spreads like a snowball rolling down hill, would explain our present where the sum of human knowledge is doubling in a short period, eighteen months, as compared to Thomas Jefferson's day when all the books know would have fit on a six foot shelf, but to read them you would have to learn Greek, Latin, French, and English. His great work was to write the sum of human knowledge in English, and up to date.

It took a long time, some crafts survived thousands of years unchanged, to our time where Tesla uses remote wireless controls only a hundred years ago, and now we are on the fourth generation of computers designing and building computers.

The graph of technology over time is a line bouncing along the bottom, then rising in the last hundred years, and now going straight up.

I could not read the books published this week in my life, but someone will, and that knowledge will spread faster than a new shade of lip gloss through young teen girls. Fads do exibit a group conciousness.

It is more than Public Opinion.

i dunno.... just saw a presentation by a researcher from the great ape society... and she showed videos of the chimps doing this activity... and she did say they were potatoes (or whatever) that were put there by the researchers... but the monkeys did figure out the washing themselves.

she further said that the action spread throughout all of the females... but not all of the older males.

idk about the 100 monkeys thing.

Hello Inventor

> It reminds me of the hundred monkeys.

Here is the text from the Home Page of the original Hundredth Monkey website (no longer extant). Copies of Ken Keyes' book may still be available from second-hand stores.

"The Japanese monkey, Macaca fuscata, had been observed in the wild for a period of over 30 years. In 1952, on the island of Koshima, scientists were providing monkeys with sweet potatoes dropped in the sand. The monkeys liked the taste of the raw sweet potatoes, but they found the dirt unpleasant. An 18-month-old female named Imo found she could solve the problem by washing the potatoes in a nearby stream. She taught this trick to her mother. Her playmates also learned this new way and they taught their mothers too. This cultural innovation was gradually picked up by various monkeys before the eyes of the scientists. Between 1952 and 1958 all the young monkeys learned to wash the sandy sweet potatoes to make them more palatable. Only the adults who imitated their children learned this social improvement. Other adults kept eating dirty sweet potatoes.

"Then something startling took place. In the autumn of 1958, a certain number of Koshima monkeys were washing sweet potatoes - the exact number is not known. Let us suppose that when the Sun rose one morning there were 99 monkeys on Koshima island who had learned to wash their sweet potatoes. Let's further suppose that later that morning, the hundredth monkey learned to wash potatoes.

"Then it happened! By that evening almost everyone in the tribe was washing sweet potatoes before eating them. The added energy of this hundredth monkey somehow created an ideological breakthrough! But notice. A most surprizing thing observed by these scientists was that the habit of washing sweet potatoes then jumped over the sea; colonies of monkeys on other islands, and the mainland troop of monkeys at Takasakiyama began washing their sweet potatoes.

"Thus, when a certain critical number achieves an awareness, this new awareness may be communicated from mind to mind. Although the exact number may vary, this Hundredth Monkey Phenomenon means that when only a limited number of people know of a new way, it may remain the conscious property of these people. But there is a point at which if only one more person tunes-in to a new awareness, a field is strengthened so that this awareness is picked up by almost everyone!"

> That awareness spreads like a snowball rolling down hill, would explain
> our present where the sum of human knowledge is doubling in a short
> period, eighteen months, as compared to Thomas Jefferson's day when all
> the books know would have fit on a six foot shelf ...

> and now we are on the fourth generation of computers designing and building computers.

> The graph of technology over time is a line bouncing along the bottom,
> then rising in the last hundred years, and now going straight up.

> Fads do exibit a group conciousness.

Aha! I believe that these phrases hold the key to a far better understanding of the causes underlying Autism, and especially AS, but fair number of new concepts are involved, and quite a bit of explanation.

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Hello Sedaka

> if the generators were really random there is always a random chance of
> them producing a number so big, that it would take an infinite amount of
> time to list... so i doubt that's happening, so they must impose a number
> set of sorts.... and in doing that, you have therefore removed real
> randomness.

Yes, good point. That's confusing if you've no experience with random number generation. The answer, as you suggest, is simply that random numbers used in practical applications are always bounded. For example, most computer programs that generate pseudo-random numbers (you can't generate true random numbers with a computer, for obvious reasons) give a binary number that is converted to a decimal number between zero and one. This can then be multiplied to give a number in whatever range is needed. The REGs used by the GCP use "white noise" in an electronic device as one method of generating truly random numbers, but these are also bounded, necessarily so since the time resolution is finite. However, if we could achieve infinite time resolution, we would see true randomness of these data within any given bounds.

Hello psych

> Fosar and Bludorf believe that human group consciousness is surfacing
> :
> by traversing through wormholes in the curved space-time continuum!

Very interesting. However, there may be much simpler explanations than invoking wormholes to explain what is after all a very straight-forward communication phenomenon. Sheldrake's Morphogenetic Fields satisfy Occam's criterion better.

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Hello peebo

> it sounds a little bit like some of rupert sheldrake's ideas.
> :
> he has been fairly ridiculed by the scientific establishment.

See www dot sheldrake dot org for Sheldrake's site. He's been setting up experiments to try for empirical proof of his ideas

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Hello Warsie

>> "anyone suggest why and how this phenomenon occurs"

> It's all part of an all-encompasing force that binds the universe together...

Interesting, but too many assumptions and too broad a canvas to serve as a basis for focused discussion.

>> "and its possible implications for the AS community?"

> Probably theories that autistics are cut-off from this force,
> :
> or it is projection of said power, or a superntural being)

Again, interesting speculation but not useful for progress.

> (mainstream scientists won't touch it, at least not at first)

Your skepticism is justified, but we're now a long way down the track. Some mainstream scientists were investigating similar phenomena in the late 19th century, and were bitterly ridiculed for their trouble. The US military started to take such things very seriously in the 1970s, and at that time commissioned several secret research projects, some now in the public record. The evidence now overwhelmingly supports the conclusion that academic science is as out-of-date as the steam engine. Problem is, most of the great scientists were not academics and therefore capable of independent thought. Academics are the brick walls of the intellectual world, useful for retaining known data, but mostly useless for creative research. This is why we need a new intellectual milieu for exploring new ideas.

Hello Felinity

> There is something I've heard referred to as "E-Consciousness"...
> have you heard of that? I wonder if it's similar?

No, haven't heard of E-consciousness, and thanks for the link - will definitely take a look.

> it makes me wonder HOW they go about determining the correlations

Algorithms (i.e. known procedures) are available for determining the degree of randomness in a given data set.

> Is there a way to describe the program and what it has discovered in a
> brief summary of say.. a handful of easy to understand sentences??

Yes, certainly, but such a summary must have a purpose. What is yours?

> I think what the original theory that the program is saying they have
> found proof for would read something like this:
> When enough people have their consciousness at least turned on,
> they can effect matter.

OK, good start. By "enough people" I assume that you're supposing a threshold - i.e. a minimum level that must be exceeded in order to produce an effect. The next question is "HOW do they affect matter?"

> What might be happening, is when people collectively think, there could
> be an energy transference in the form of some type of ELECTRICITY
> (or psychic energy if you will).

Even better. No, it's not electricity, but it is obviously a field of some sort. By "field" I mean "a region in which correlated interactions occur." Electromagnetic theory allows two complementary ways of examining its phenomena; either as forces bewteen particles, or as modulations of a field. However, in thinking like this, you have gone well beyond what modern science allows, and this sets you a challenge. AS is diagnosed according to the current medical/scientific paradigm. You have just stated your willingness to entertain ideas that medicine rejects and ridicules. So, either you must renounce your ideas and kowtow to the doctors, or you must reject the accepted diagnosis and try to discover your own understanding of the condition. Do you have the courage for the latter?

> The deal would be then, to figure out a way to DIRECT the consciousness
> to effect matter in a specific way by using this "electricity".

This has already been done in various ways, and there is much fascinating information available. See Targ and Puthoff's experiments with Ingo Swann for results for a specific individual; more controversially, MIU have done well-documented experiments using large numbers (> 1%) of meditators in small communities (around 1,000 people) and have recorded repeatable results.

> That could actually be dangerous if in the wrong hands.

Yes, it IS dangerous. The US military started investigating these things back in the '70s and, along with the US Secret Services, have spent millions of dollars pursuing it. One known outcome is Remote Viewing - the use of trained psychics for espionage. There are other and far less encouraging applications. See Dean Radin's book "The Conscious Universe" for more details of the former, and Elmar Gruber's "Psychic Wars" for more on the latter.

> I don't know if any of you are familiar with a place called Coral Castle
> :
> could be dangerous in the wrong hands..

He was right, but infortunately its already in those hands.

> I'll have to read how they determine this from their data

There's more supporting data for this than anyone has time to examine in any detail. If you want a qualified academic opinon, see Jessica Utts classic paper "An assessment of the evidence for psychic functioning" at anson dot ucdavis dot edu slash ~utts

Let's see...

• No attempt to discern how important an event is, or control for any bias in picking out which events have major importance and which don't. (Not to mention all the "important" events seem very much centered on what makes American news and what doesn't, and on very human-centered concepts of importance.)
• No explanation for when "spikes" occur when "important" events are not considered to be going on.
• No explanation for when "spikes" fail to occur when "important" events are going on
• No particular controlling for time ("spikes" might occur before or after an "important" event and will still be considered to be associated with it)
• No apparent comprehension that random events tend to cluster

Wow! ha! I love this thread! I always had a fascination for Parapsychology and all of this stuff

Tekra, Thank you for your insight on my musings as to what's going on. I will definitely do more reading on this! I really appreciate your thoughts and would like to keep up with all the latest developments in this field. I'm going to re-read what you wrote and reflect on it more.
Also, I tried to get this link, but it didn't work: "An assessment of the evidence for psychic functioning" at anson dot ucdavis dot edu slash ~utts maybe they're off line? I tried it without ~utts, but no luck either..


Other posts here have given me more food for thought as well.

Warsie, thanks for that really interesting link above also


Just the other day, I was looking at my cat and noticing that he washes himself methodically using the side of his paw in just such a way to go over his ears and head area in precisely the same manner that I have seen EVERY cat do... I wondered, is this "instinct" knowledge that is learned from one generation to the next and somehow passed down genetically? OR with the monkey-theory.. it might be that this "knowledge" is transferred in quite a different way!?!
As well as many other examples of "instinctive" knowledge? Fascinating stuff!