Is WP attracting too many of the wrong people

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Twirlip
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10 May 2011, 1:07 am

Beabe wrote:

Luci wrote:

Beabe wrote:

I think if you think you might have it then you should just get yourself checked. You may think you have it but you are not a doctor. Plus if you get checked and have it then you can get help with thing within the syndrome that cause you problems. There is also the chance that you may not have it and have something else or nothing at all. I don't really get why people will claim for years they have it but go undiagnosed. I mean there is just as much chance you could be wrong. Self diagnosing of the internet or books isn't the best. Its like people having a cough checking the symptoms online and thinking they have tb. Not as bad as that but I don't really believe in Self diagnosis.

People here have many times explained why they don't get an official diagnosis - the most common reasons have seemed (to me) to be:
- It's expensive
- The doctor could be less knowledgeable on the subject

those are pretty weak reasons.

Not as weak as imagining that autism is something that is easily "checked" by a doctor performing a physical examination as if you just had a cough. Note that I'm not saying that self-diagnosis is a simple matter either. Nor I am "claiming" to be autistic myself. And I wasn't going to jump on you rudely the first time, but now that you are re-iterating this simplistic and idealised view of how all-knowing doctors are and how ignorant laymen are, I really can't let it go - it's becoming annoying to anyone who has a more realistic understanding than you do of what doctors are like in the real world.

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Verdandi
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10 May 2011, 2:42 am

Dinosaw wrote:

Beabe wrote:

Luci wrote:

those are pretty weak reasons.

Beabe, you are kidding, right? Lack of money is a weak reason for not getting a diagnosis? Wow, if you are serious, I dare say you have probably written the most thoughtless post within this entire thread.

It's pretty amazing. An official diagnosis can cost upwards of 2-4 thousand dollars and somehow it's a weak reason to not get one? Seems pretty strong to me.

It's possible to get Social Security to pay for one, but they need to have a reason for it, which I suspect may mean you're already diagnosed.

cyberdad
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10 May 2011, 5:03 am

Beabe wrote:

Luci wrote:

Beabe wrote:

those are pretty weak reasons.

If your rich..

MichaelDWhite
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10 May 2011, 8:09 pm

League_Girl wrote:

What's wrong with mild Asperger's? What about other mild conditions? Is there anything wrong with mild schizophrenia or mild dyspraxia or mild ADD, or mild dyslexia or mild retardation or mild Bipolar or mild asthma, etc?

I don't understand why mild is a bad thing.

I think when people say they have "Mild" AS it may appear as if they are trying to distance themselves from other people with AS or make themselves sound better, even though that is probably not the true intent.

In reality we don't know whether certain cases of AS are somehow neurologically milder than others or whether we all have same basic condition with varying symptoms and levels of impairment.

draelynn
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10 May 2011, 8:39 pm

MichaelDWhite wrote:

I think the 'mild' label gets applied as an individuals assessment of how their traits manifest in their life. There have been Aspies here that self identify as 'mild' because they have jobs and friends and relationships but clinically, they have been considered significantly impaired. I don't think 'mild' is a way to distance themselves but more a show of respect for those that are more impaired. Most people here do not take the challenges of others lightly. By self identifying as 'mild' you are letting others know that you do not feel you share the more challenging aspects of Asperger's/autism others may be experiencing.

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11 May 2011, 11:37 am

draelynn wrote:

MichaelDWhite wrote:

I think that's true. I sometimes self-identify as "mild" because educationally and occupationally I have done fairly well (though I could have done better without AS, I am sure of it), but when it comes to relationships I feel like a disaster. I do it more out of respect for those who have more challenges across-the-board than I do. I don't want to "distance myself" because in some respects my challenges *are* pretty daunting and I find myself relating to the struggles of others here who don't self-identify that way, and I don't see that much difference even with the modicum of occupational success I've managed to come by. I just don't want to minimize anyone else's struggles.

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Mdyar
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11 May 2011, 5:08 pm

Meow101 wrote:

draelynn wrote:

MichaelDWhite wrote:

I think when people say they have "Mild" AS it may appear as if they are trying to distance themselves from other people with AS or make themselves sound better, even though that is probably not the true intent.

In reality we don't know whether certain cases of AS are somehow neurologically milder than others or whether we all have same basic condition with varying symptoms and levels of impairment.

Neurologically milder?

Yep, this too.

There can be a quite large cognitive scatter on an IQ test. There can be gapping holes on subtests to a much less scatter on these, with a descrepant verbal/ performance difference, e.g. 160/80 IQ 160/130 I.Q.,etc.

This in itself would likely affect real life performance between the two examples (of course with everything else being equal).

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11 May 2011, 5:56 pm

Except that intelligence is affected by our experiences. IQ score is not a good test for neurological condition.

Edit: Aside from that, where on that IQ scale does it show a hikikomori nature?

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11 May 2011, 10:36 pm

MrLoony wrote:

Except that intelligence is affected by our experiences. IQ score is not a good test for neurological condition.

Edit: Aside from that, where on that IQ scale does it show a hikikomori nature?

True. Without experience there would be nothing. Someone with the same experience, say classmates in the same school, show different levels of "g." There would be the smart and the average--->.....etc.

There is also scatter on IQ tests with learning disabilities. With AS there is a trend of verbal over performance I.Q. Sometimes showing a large difference as cited above.

I've read that a score of '30 difference' is a marker of AS, so that it's indicative of this to start looking there.

I've found posts here that have shown 80 points difference between the two.

As somewhat interesting to myself I recently found that with ADD there is this same trend. I suspect that the performance part is hit because it is an executive function disorder.

Last edited by Mdyar on 11 May 2011, 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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11 May 2011, 11:56 pm

Mdyar wrote:

MrLoony wrote:

Except that intelligence is affected by our experiences. IQ score is not a good test for neurological condition.

Edit: Aside from that, where on that IQ scale does it show a hikikomori nature?

True. Without experience there would nothing. Someone with the same experience, say classmates in the same school, show different levels of "g." There would be the smart and the average--->.....etc.

There is also scatter on IQ tests with learning disabilities. With AS there is a trend of verbal over performance I.Q. Sometimes showing a large difference as cited above.

I've read that a score of '30 difference' is a marker of AS, so that it's indicative of this to start looking there.

I've found posts here that have shown 80 points difference between the two.

As somewhat interesting to myself I recently found that with ADD there is this same trend. I suspect that the performance part is hit because it is an executive function disorder.

In my test analysis research, there's wasn't a significant correlation between verbal IQ and performance IQ discrepancies and ones AQ score (Which was the test most predictive of possessing aspergers according to the analysis) -- it was somewhere around -.1 to -.15, actually. However, I didn't have enough IQ scores for those "officially diagnosed" with aspergers to make a definite assertion about the link between verbal/performance discrepancies and aspergers. But, the research seems to suggest it really isn't significant. (Which is dismaying, because I was hoping to rule out aspergers from my nearly equivalently high PIQ/VIQ scores.)

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12 May 2011, 12:15 am

Mdyar wrote:

Without experience there would be nothing. Someone with the same experience, say classmates in the same school

Parents.

Classmates have different parents, and parents are the primary influence on our personalities, which includes our intelligence.

The idea that intelligence is solely, or even mostly, genetic is incorrect. Considerable research has been done and it shows that the primary factor in our intelligence is our experiences. NOT our knowledge, mind you! I'm talking about our ability to learn, our creativity, etc.

Oh, certain genetic factors can come into play, but two people with similar genetic makeup can have significantly different levels of intelligence, based on their experiences (the primary of which being parents). In other words, two people with autism with different verbal IQ scores are more likely to have vastly different experiences as opposed to vastly different genetic makeup.

It seems to me that people with "mild" Aspergers would tend to have experiences that stress the benefits of a NT mind over an autistic mind (or given more encouragement in that area), so they are more easily able to adapt to NT society.

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12 May 2011, 12:19 am

swbluto wrote:

Mdyar wrote:

MrLoony wrote:

Except that intelligence is affected by our experiences. IQ score is not a good test for neurological condition.

Edit: Aside from that, where on that IQ scale does it show a hikikomori nature?

In my test analysis research, there's wasn't a significant correlation between verbal IQ and performance IQ discrepancies and ones AQ score (Which was the test most predictive of possessing aspergers according to the analysis) -- it was somewhere around -.1 to -.15, actually. However, I didn't have enough IQ scores for those "officially diagnosed" with aspergers to make a definite assertion about the link between verbal/performance discrepancies and aspergers. But, [b]the research seems to suggest it really isn't significant.[/b] (Which is dismaying, because I was hoping to rule out aspergers from my nearly equivalently high PIQ/VIQ scores.)

sw, "the research" means your recent data analysis research on this, or other outside research ?

Hmmm...I've read that even less than 30 points difference is a marker (outside of U.S). Somewhere in there is a cognitive difference , sometimes with just a slow processing speed. This would indicate executive functioning problems. Another is blind to non verbal items on the test.

Check this one out: http://www.paulcooijmans.com/asperger/s ... erger.html

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12 May 2011, 12:37 am

MrLoony wrote:

Mdyar wrote:

Without experience there would be nothing. Someone with the same experience, say classmates in the same school

I remember growing up with a family that lived just a few houses down. The oldest was a genius by his IQ +160 and his brothers not even close.
He became quite successful, the others didn't do nearly as much.

Do you think Ma and Pa missed the other two in some way, then?

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12 May 2011, 12:42 am

Mdyar wrote:

swbluto wrote:

Mdyar wrote:

MrLoony wrote:

Except that intelligence is affected by our experiences. IQ score is not a good test for neurological condition.

Edit: Aside from that, where on that IQ scale does it show a hikikomori nature?

In my test analysis research, there's wasn't a significant correlation between verbal IQ and performance IQ discrepancies and ones AQ score (Which was the test most predictive of possessing aspergers according to the analysis) -- it was somewhere around -.1 to -.15, actually. However, I didn't have enough IQ scores for those "officially diagnosed" with aspergers to make a definite assertion about the link between verbal/performance discrepancies and aspergers. But, [b]the research seems to suggest it really isn't significant.[/b] (Which is dismaying, because I was hoping to rule out aspergers from my nearly equivalently high PIQ/VIQ scores.)

Oh yes, I meant my research. I suppose a significant discrepancy with a much higher VIQ would indicate there's a high likelihood of possessing aspergers (Assuming there are other observable aspergian traits), but a low difference in the IQ's index scores doesn't seem to rule out the possession of aspergers.

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12 May 2011, 12:57 am

Mdyar wrote:

Anecdotal evidence? Aside from that, if intelligence is genetic, there's no way at all the other brothers should have been so different, since parents are the only influence there and genetics don't change (aside from epigenetics, but we'll not go into that). However, significant events in the parents' lives can change their outlook, as well as new friends, old friends gone, etc.

This is aside from the fact that I didn't say parents are the ONLY influence, just the most important.

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12 May 2011, 12:58 am

Epigenetics strikes me as extremely relevant, actually.

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