“A Field Guide to Earthlings” – Is this for Real?

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Thanks for the advice. It is very useful (and quite helpful). I have in the past tried to get my wife's help. Sometimes she can be quite helpful. Sometimes she expresses frustration (at having to expend mental energy to help solve my problems).

In any event, it's amazing how naturally these interactions come to certain people. Likewise, it's amazing how much of a struggle these interactions can be for me.

Once individuals have something invested in an idea, particularly in public, going against that idea requires a public admission that they were wrong, and they lose face. In the example above, the group collectively decided the topic and/or idea was worth discussing, and is probably starting to move on it. They've made a semi-public investment in the idea. To go against that is asking them, again, in public, to lose face. There has to be a reason or someone to blame for them to drop the idea in semi-public like that.

It's not just percieved as rude, it's percieved as taking the group's time and identity to ask them to admit they were wrong in front of each other. It seldom goes well.

AgentPalpatine – Thanks for the thought. So, I used to have lots of problems with this (when I was much, much younger).

I learned many years ago, that I needed a different approach. What did I do? Well, I met individually with each member of the team, to explore/discuss why the original idea should be revisited. And, once I get buy-in from the individuals, then I would discuss it once again as a group. That way, the group saves face. Interestingly, the individual members of the team "conveniently" forget about the original idea.

But that approach does not always work.

I think the challenge (at least for me) is this. I tend to think through things very thoroughly. At a very low level of detail. Several people have told me that I am the most detailed person they know (which could be both a good and bad thing).

By doing this, I am able to then build up to the bigger picture. I can then actually model the approach in my head and run scenarios through that approach. By doing so, I can see flaws in an approach. I don’t believe this is a unique skill. But…I don’t believe most people spend the time to uncover that level of detail.

The problem with this approach (which, is my natural approach to everything), is can take a long time for me to come to any conclusion (which is probably also why I am a slow decision maker). And, by that time, the group, as you say, is starting to move on it. Or, for those not so complex things, have moved on to the next topic (which is what happens in a committee meeting).

It always appalls me that people/groups are willing to make decisions without thinking through things. My guess is, that from their perspective, there’s Rocket over there, obsessing with stupid details. LOL.

I have no idea if other people suffer similar fates. What I do know is that it can be frustrating being so different. And, so inflexible in my methodology (because that is how my analytical mind works).

Rocket, I know exactly what you're talking about. I do the exact same thing as you do. I model the approach in my head and run scenarios as well. When I think through it, the things past groups I have been in wanting to do makes no sense. They will not consider x may screw the whole thing up like time constraints.

I worked for a small organization who was a member of an association that other organizations were a part of. Each organization had their own databases. Each organization's did different things. Clients would visit and utilize the different services of each organization. Because each organization had their own databases each client and their information was duplicated. Anytime, anyone needed information from a different organization one had to go through a lengthy process of asking questions and figuring out what information went where especially if there were inaccuracies.

For the most part, I didn't speak at our meetings(our organizations) because I had really nothing to contribute or say. In this case, I had an idea. I suggested that all of the organizations combine databases into a data warehouse. They wouldn't go with it and their excuse was because no one had time to meet to obtain the user requirements to get this project going. In addition, they did not have a location to me at. I even suggested well, maybe we can do it on an online forum that I could sign up for and administrate. Again, they told me there was not enough time.

After I asked them well maybe each organization could let me have access to their Entity Relationship Diagrams meaning the logical design of each organization's database and I can reverse engineer and construct a new logical model from there. In addition, I suggested we could put it on the free edition of SQL server for now and I create the user interface or each organization can put up a certain amount of money and we can buy SQL server which would be better feature wise. I would want to get the web edition. They looked at me like I spoke Greek and seemed to not know what I was talking about.

After this, they just moved onto the next topic and I just finally took the cue and shut up. Rocket, we might as well sit down and break out the 12 pack of Budweiser.

This type of stuff just drives me batty.

So, I don't consider myself the smartest person in the world (lord knows, there are much smarter people out there, especially on WP). But, when people do these things, I have only one thought - "idiots".

A long time ago, I used to wonder how could the company (I was working for) "draw the short straw" and end up with so many idiots? Later on, I developed a new theory about the working world. That people simply "checked their IQ" at the door on the way in.

But, now...Well, I am no longer certain about anything that involves human interaction. Other than, it can be a very frustrating experience (for me).

Well, I just got home from my SQL class so I know exactly what cubedemon is talking about.

I'm by no means an expert but so far I'm catching on to SQL fast while I see a lot of my classmates struggling and I do wonder as Rocket said, are they choosing to not make the mental effort? There are things I make a conscious mental choice to not learn (like certain computer games my kid plays) because I don't want to be called upon to use that knowledge. If I don't know it then I can't help you, sorry. I wonder if that's one of the patterns in the book. It sort of fits that symbolic filtering pattern. Reducing things to simple representations. Our attempts to undo that and bring detail back into focus is probably not welcome.

Nobody wants to tackle my "underlying conversation" question earlier? I just haven't a clue other than it sounds like an important aspect in NT communication.

Nobody wants to tackle my "underlying conversation" question earlier? I just haven't a clue other than it sounds like an important aspect in NT communication.

I think the author goes to some lengths to explain that everything depends on the context. I'll try this with an example.....here goes

2 people are standing around the water cooler talking about investments

a third person (with AS) comes along and starts talking about investments thinking that they are joining in the conversation in an appropriate way - wrong!

the conversation wasn't about investments - the two had just met and they were getting to know each other. They were just talking about something they are both familiar with not really exchanging information.

The joiner to the conversation interrupted the " getting to know you conversation "

But - How do you know it was a "getting to know you conversation" ? And that your input about the state of the share markets was not really welcome?

anybody care to have a crack at the answer? To be honest I wouldn't know myself....but this is true story

Count me as another person who is interested in understanding this question.

You know, as I think about it, maybe NTs consider Aspies shallow. As Aspies don't understand the depth and nuance of the conversation they are actually having.

Also, I am now wondering whether NTs realize that Aspies "don't get it". That is, if an Aspie is having a water cooler discussion with an NT about investments, does the NT realize the conversation is, well, just about investments?

Wait, what??? I would not ever imagine that the above conversation wasn't about finances. I can't imagine how many times I've gotten this all wrong, both in the primary conversation or as the third party. I'm quite certain I will never be able to converse like this with people. It would be a miracle if I could even identify others doing this. And that's only one particular thing we're missing out of many in conversations.

I'm getting this book just so I can understand what I don't understand and then I'll probably hide in my house. (Which is what my grandmother used to do and my dad pretty much does. I'm certain both were/are Aspie also.) My professor said his friend works from home in his bathrobe as a DBA for good money. I think I want to do that.

Janissy – Do you have any idea what pattern this represents (from "A Field Guide to Earthlings")? Also, how would an Aspie "know" that this is occurring? As the conversation could be about finances. Or, it could be a "getting to know you” conversation.

After all, “sometimes a cigar is just a cigar”. LOL.

Yes, It's really a good book. I'm happy I found it, I'm planning to read it a couple times more ^^
And maybe I can understand neurotypicals better, I'm 18 now!

But keep in mind that the book is not explaining the whole of differences of aspies and neurotypicals, only language.
If you want to have a complete view of the differences between neurotypicals you have to read this book:
http://youmaybeinsane.webstarts.com/ind ... 0228130918
(ignore the company etc. I put it online so people could read it)
and afterwards read books like this one, and you'll find that neurotypical people are still sometimes confusing but much less, look at my threat I wrote a year ago about the same book:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt205307.html

Differences

Some problems which can occur:

Control Imbalance: Arises from a stimulus that triggers a powerful instinctual reaction resulting in an obsessive need to control a situation. The evolutionary reason for this type of imbalance is to survive life threatening situations by stimulating the mind and body to act quickly and powerfully.

Deprivation Imbalance: Arises from a stimulus that triggers a powerful instinctual reaction resulting in an obsessive need to consume. The evolutionary reason for this type of imbalance is to correct dietary deficiencies in order to avoid malnutrition and survive.

Escape Imbalance: Arises from a stimulus that triggers a powerful instinctual reaction resulting in an obsessive need to escape from a situation. The evolutionary reason for this type of imbalance is to create a fantasy world in order to mentally survive intolerably painful situations which cannot be escaped physically at the time and must be endured.





I think if you udnerstand these book proberly, you'll have it a lot easier talking with neurotypicals.

Thanks for your post. Believe it or not, I read the book because of your original posting (at: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt205307.html).

I tried to read the other book you mentioned (at: http://youmaybeinsane.webstarts.com/ind ... 0228130918), but it is a bit difficult to read the words with that background (as I am color blind).

That looks like Pattern 23: Small Talk.

The author says-

So it looks on the surface like a discussion of investments but it isn't to exchange information about investment strategies but rather to discover each other's identity (getting to know each other) and "investments" was just a probing tool.

So how can you tell? You can't tell by subject matter. The author makes that very clear (and he is absolutely right). You tell by context. If two people don't know each other very well and are getting to know each other then you are likely witnessing small talk rather than an exchange of information. Exchanges of information do happen but generally not until much farther along in a conversation or in an ongoing relationship.

Would you be expected to just know that two people are getting to know each other and engaging in small talk rather than information exchange? Unfortunately, yes. This is where a difference between AS and NT makes an impact. NT people since birth (ok, a few days after birth) are in the mental habit of constantly scanning the enviroment and making mental maps of all the people therein and what the relationships of the people are to each other and to themselves. This starts really a very short time after birth with a latch onto Mom and widens from there. Parents will note that their autistic babies don't seem to be making this scan and latch and instead are scanning for things rather than people. After a literal lifetime of that habit, NTs will have an accurate and constantly updated catalogue of all relationships around them while AS people will have a similar catalogue except it's full of enviromental info rather than social.

Which is all to say an Aspie may have a hard time figuring it out given a lack of constantly updated cataloguing of the social enviroment. And that's how you tell, not by subject matter. But on the upside, I don't think it's really a big deal. People will think you odd for contributing facts to small talk, but it's not considered hostile or rude. Just odd.

Janissy – Thanks for the reply.

So, I will be honest. I am really confused about this concept of Small Talk. And what comprises Small Talk.

So, I have a story to tell. Just last night, I went to one of those Committee Meetings (related to one my kid’s activities). But, it was a “special” Committee Meeting. Because it was the last meeting of the year, they decided to do a dinner at a restaurant. Yuck!

I didn’t really want to go to the "meeting". I hate going to these types of events (because I never knew what to talk to people about). And, I particularly dislike going to events where eating is involved. As I hate having to sit next to people and have to struggle to figure out what to say (to the "lucky" person who sits next to me). Yuck again!

But, it was a special event. Two of the leaders were moving back East. And, I really appreciated all they did for my daughters. So, I felt obligated to go (one of those “should” things).

I dreaded going. Not because I was anxious. But because it is such a chore trying to figure out what to say to people that are mere acquaintances.

Before I went, I thought of a couple of things I could talk about – related with my daughters. And “armed” myself accordingly. Ha Ha!

Anyhow. It was always my assumption that what occurs at these events is “Small Talk". That it serves no purpose. Well, I suppose it does serve one purpose. It helps make the event “go by” faster (at least for me). In other words, the event would go by really slowly if I just stood there, doing nothing. By having things to talk about, the evening passed on quickly.

So, I had a goal. First, I didn’t want to seem awkward. Second, I wanted the evening to pass quickly. Thankfully, during part of the dinner, they conducted actual “business”. So, the entire event wasn’t “Small Talk”.

A question for you. Are these non-consequential discussions, at events like this, considered “Small Talk”? And, how do I figure out other people’s objectives? Is it possible that their objectives were similar to mine (simply to make the event “go by” faster)?

I observed two things during the event that were a bit interesting.

First, I was asking one of the leaders (who was moving back East) about some details of their move when someone else came in and started talking to the leader about something else. The topic of the conversation changed abruptly. I didn’t mind. I just stood there and continued listening. The person who interrupted, apologized to me twice about the interruption. I guess he felt bad (since he apologized). Though, I am not certain I understood why. After all, my only goal was to “look busy” until the meal began.

Second, I noticed that the wine/beer was flowing pretty well. I don’t typically drink. So, I just watched others get semi-sloshed. I am guessing that some of these folks are drinking because they enjoy it, some are drinking because they are alcoholics and others are drinking because they are socially anxious. Not certain how to tell. Ha Ha!

All in all, the event wasn’t that bad. But I am glad it is over. Sometimes, I think because I can “handle” these events, that I should not have been diagnosed. Then again, I don’t known any Aspies to benchmark myself against.

I'd express caution about using any one book, no matter how well written, to explain "everything", social rules are far too complex for any one book.

Yes. And end-of-year events will be pretty much entirely small talk since the year's business has been completed.


I don't think you can. Don't drive yourself crazy trying.



It's statistically likely that at least some had that motivation.





Even if you just did it to look busy, talking about details of the move was an excellent small talk choice.

Add-on: I understand AgentPalpatine's reservations about leaning too heavily on just this one book. That's very true and it can't possibly have everything. Whole university departments are devoted to this stuff (Sociology Department). But it sure is handy that the author has labeled 62 patterns for easy reference. It makes it easier to discuss this stuff by referring to the author's label.