I have a question to ask autistic people

Page 3 of 8 [ 119 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 8  Next

BirdInFlight
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jun 2013
Age: 63
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,501
Location: If not here, then where?

28 Aug 2016, 11:18 am

Copypaste and print out everyone's posts on this thread, as I think there's a whole lot of terrifically valid input and sharing here, from everyone. [nodding] :)

katy_rome wrote:
BirdinFlight, the stories of yourself and your background, this is incredibly interesting and so useful to me, it's exactly what I need to learn about. I am struck by the parallels between you (also when young) and my son, and I want to take the time now to read your posts more slowly and carefully. In fact I think I will copy paste the whole lot and print it out, so I can write all over it :D



katy_rome
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Gender: Female
Posts: 232
Location: UK

28 Aug 2016, 11:22 am

somanyspoons wrote:
katy_rome wrote:
About the noticing and responding to people, as I've just seen there were a few more really interesting comments about this, I've seen that when my son is under any kind of complex social pressure, especially negative, judgemental, manipulative, competitive, disapproving, he is unable to communicate or 'respond appropriately'. He stops making eye contact, completely. If forced to reply by some insensitive adult, he'll mumble something at the wall. He looks sullen, and later flies into rages (when alone with me), which look to me like the culmination of emotional desperation and overload, and a deep feeling of being misunderstood. It looks to me like it's not him but the adult in the situation who is behaving inappropriately :wink:

It's almost like, despite his best intentions, he gets judged and misunderstood (by people, not by animals or things).

When he is relaxed, like when we're in the woods with our dog, or with our closest friends, he is spookily empathetic. He reads my emotions and my intentions in a way our lovely, sociable daughter, cannot. And there's full eye contact, smiles, laughter, great physical coordination, he's totally carefree. All missing when in a negative 'people situation'.


I was just saying in another thread that its so important to state it if you are not speaking English as a first language on these boards. It gives us the change to be more understanding of word choice issues.

So, gently... are you aware of the implication of calling your son spooky? Its a term we associate with fear. Primarily with the presence of ghosts or other chilling paranormal activity. Its almost never used to describe human being, except if you want to describe a vague feeling of discomfort around them. Like "My neighbor turned out to be an axe murderer. I always thought there was something spooky about him, but I couldn't quiet place it."

There is a great need within the NT community to place us somewhere understandable. To put us in a box that is familiar. And so some people, who are well intentioned, say that Autistics are some kind of higher human evolution. That we are "indigo children" or that we are "old souls."

Unfortunately, this is just as confining as describing us all as idiots. We aren't all the same. Some of us are into spirit work and others aren't. Personally, I'm one of the one's who is into it. But the majority are not. You're welcome to speak to me about it. But not as an aspect of "all autistics are..." My autism does provide a way of looking at the world that facilitates my intuition, but autism doesn't have to do this. For many people, autism facilitates science or mathematical ways of looking at the world... or a "trains!" way of looking at the world.


I guess I should be more sensitive about using the word 'spooky', sorry about that. What did I mean by that? Certainly nothing kind of horror-filmy style.. Hmm. Right, Find and Replace All with 'remarkable', that's what I'm meaning :)



BirdInFlight
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jun 2013
Age: 63
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,501
Location: If not here, then where?

28 Aug 2016, 11:33 am

"Remarkably empathetic" or "eerily" maybe as a good replacement for "spookily" -- I think I get your intention as to mean perhaps that it's "almost paranormal or magical" how empathetic he may be in those situations, perhaps? :)



Hyperborean
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 956
Location: Europe

28 Aug 2016, 11:40 am

somanyspoons wrote:
katy_rome wrote:
About the noticing and responding to people, as I've just seen there were a few more really interesting comments about this, I've seen that when my son is under any kind of complex social pressure, especially negative, judgemental, manipulative, competitive, disapproving, he is unable to communicate or 'respond appropriately'. He stops making eye contact, completely. If forced to reply by some insensitive adult, he'll mumble something at the wall. He looks sullen, and later flies into rages (when alone with me), which look to me like the culmination of emotional desperation and overload, and a deep feeling of being misunderstood. It looks to me like it's not him but the adult in the situation who is behaving inappropriately :wink:

It's almost like, despite his best intentions, he gets judged and misunderstood (by people, not by animals or things).

When he is relaxed, like when we're in the woods with our dog, or with our closest friends, he is spookily empathetic. He reads my emotions and my intentions in a way our lovely, sociable daughter, cannot. And there's full eye contact, smiles, laughter, great physical coordination, he's totally carefree. All missing when in a negative 'people situation'.


I was just saying in another thread that its so important to state it if you are not speaking English as a first language on these boards. It gives us the change to be more understanding of word choice issues.

So, gently... are you aware of the implication of calling your son spooky? Its a term we associate with fear. Primarily with the presence of ghosts or other chilling paranormal activity. Its almost never used to describe human being, except if you want to describe a vague feeling of discomfort around them. Like "My neighbor turned out to be an axe murderer. I always thought there was something spooky about him, but I couldn't quiet place it."

There is a great need within the NT community to place us somewhere understandable. To put us in a box that is familiar. And so some people, who are well intentioned, say that Autistics are some kind of higher human evolution. That we are "indigo children" or that we are "old souls."

Unfortunately, this is just as confining as describing us all as idiots. We aren't all the same. Some of us are into spirit work and others aren't. Personally, I'm one of the one's who is into it. But the majority are not. You're welcome to speak to me about it. But not as an aspect of "all autistics are..." My autism does provide a way of looking at the world that facilitates my intuition, but autism doesn't have to do this. For many people, autism facilitates science or mathematical ways of looking at the world... or a "trains!" way of looking at the world.



Your point about the way NTs like to put everyone with a neurological condition into neat categories - for NT's convenience and sense of safety, not ours - is absolutely correct. Society is still very resistant to diversity of any kind, particularly neurodiversity. It's especially damaging when clinicians and academics do this.

However, I don't completely agree with what you say about katy_rome's use of the word 'spooky'. I speak numerous European languages, including some Italian, and would say that her English is of a high enough colloquial standard to understand layers of meaning. Although she has just apologised for using it in that context, I have often heard native English speakers use it in exactly the same way. Yes, there is a slightly 'paranormal' sense to it, but these days it equally describes something or someone that is hard to fathom, or is not immediately explicable or identifiable. It's actually quite rare for it to have a sinister meaning.



BirdInFlight
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jun 2013
Age: 63
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,501
Location: If not here, then where?

28 Aug 2016, 12:11 pm

Yes, I too have heard "spooky" used without a sinister or scary meaning. It can just mean "remarkable" or "astonishing" or something similar, yep.

You can hear people say things like:

"You guys really look alike, it's spooky how much!"

And "She's spookily good at cooking even though she's only new to it."



friedmacguffins
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,539

28 Aug 2016, 12:17 pm

Quote:
I speak numerous European languages, including some Italian, and would say that her English is of a high enough colloquial standard to understand layers of meaning.


A direct and logical person, with sharp memory, can be uncanny or seem paranormal. This can be unsettling.

That probably covered every possible layer of meaning, for our ESL guests.

I think autistic people are primarily-focused on functionality, not semantics.

Our feelings aren't going to get hurt, over coincidences and synchronicities.



skyflower40
Hummingbird
Hummingbird

User avatar

Joined: 3 Mar 2015
Posts: 24
Location: Arkansas

28 Aug 2016, 12:48 pm

Im an aspie female and I have always shown empathy towards animals. I always brought strays home. If it was a bird or whatever if I saw it in need I would take it home and let it go when it was better. So much so that people used to tell me to be a veterinarian. I just love all of Gods creatures...except spiders, snakes, roaches and bedbugs.

Autism is only bad when you have no support so it's good that you think positively about it. That attitude alone will make a huge difference in his way of life. Some days are just bad but with the right people in his life, he'll be even more awesome than he is now. :D



friedmacguffins
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,539

28 Aug 2016, 1:44 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbTkQ72SkDE

I leave it to the reader, to decide whether this is moral, but take no sadistic pleasure in hurting it.



somanyspoons
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Jun 2016
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 995

28 Aug 2016, 1:48 pm

Hyperborean wrote:
somanyspoons wrote:
katy_rome wrote:
About the noticing and responding to people, as I've just seen there were a few more really interesting comments about this, I've seen that when my son is under any kind of complex social pressure, especially negative, judgemental, manipulative, competitive, disapproving, he is unable to communicate or 'respond appropriately'. He stops making eye contact, completely. If forced to reply by some insensitive adult, he'll mumble something at the wall. He looks sullen, and later flies into rages (when alone with me), which look to me like the culmination of emotional desperation and overload, and a deep feeling of being misunderstood. It looks to me like it's not him but the adult in the situation who is behaving inappropriately :wink:

It's almost like, despite his best intentions, he gets judged and misunderstood (by people, not by animals or things).

When he is relaxed, like when we're in the woods with our dog, or with our closest friends, he is spookily empathetic. He reads my emotions and my intentions in a way our lovely, sociable daughter, cannot. And there's full eye contact, smiles, laughter, great physical coordination, he's totally carefree. All missing when in a negative 'people situation'.


I was just saying in another thread that its so important to state it if you are not speaking English as a first language on these boards. It gives us the change to be more understanding of word choice issues.

So, gently... are you aware of the implication of calling your son spooky? Its a term we associate with fear. Primarily with the presence of ghosts or other chilling paranormal activity. Its almost never used to describe human being, except if you want to describe a vague feeling of discomfort around them. Like "My neighbor turned out to be an axe murderer. I always thought there was something spooky about him, but I couldn't quiet place it."

There is a great need within the NT community to place us somewhere understandable. To put us in a box that is familiar. And so some people, who are well intentioned, say that Autistics are some kind of higher human evolution. That we are "indigo children" or that we are "old souls."

Unfortunately, this is just as confining as describing us all as idiots. We aren't all the same. Some of us are into spirit work and others aren't. Personally, I'm one of the one's who is into it. But the majority are not. You're welcome to speak to me about it. But not as an aspect of "all autistics are..." My autism does provide a way of looking at the world that facilitates my intuition, but autism doesn't have to do this. For many people, autism facilitates science or mathematical ways of looking at the world... or a "trains!" way of looking at the world.



Your point about the way NTs like to put everyone with a neurological condition into neat categories - for NT's convenience and sense of safety, not ours - is absolutely correct. Society is still very resistant to diversity of any kind, particularly neurodiversity. It's especially damaging when clinicians and academics do this.

However, I don't completely agree with what you say about katy_rome's use of the word 'spooky'. I speak numerous European languages, including some Italian, and would say that her English is of a high enough colloquial standard to understand layers of meaning. Although she has just apologised for using it in that context, I have often heard native English speakers use it in exactly the same way. Yes, there is a slightly 'paranormal' sense to it, but these days it equally describes something or someone that is hard to fathom, or is not immediately explicable or identifiable. It's actually quite rare for it to have a sinister meaning.


Well, I was keeping things a little simple since we were talking to someone in Italy. To get more into the subtleties, yes, sometimes people use it to describe people outside of the ghost movie sense (I'm thinking Casper more than Freddie Krugger,) but the word always points back to the paranormal. Essentially, it means that its "not of this world." Or that it's "outside of human experience." Actually, pointing out that is often a synonym with "magical" is supporting my point.

These things are not bad, until you add context to the conversation. The context is that her son has just been diagnosed with a disorder that has historically been seen as a human mis-creation. (Nobody here is saying that's correct. It was a horrific thing, but it did happen.) People with this diagnosis were put in institutions because they were not given human rights and were not seen as human enough to care that they were separated from society. So, using words like magical or spooky to describe them can all be generalized as meaning "outside of human experience." And this directly links back to this idea that autistics aren't really human. And we are. Even when we are very psychic, we are still just normal humans. NTs need to find the magic in themselves, not in us because we present differently.



somanyspoons
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Jun 2016
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 995

28 Aug 2016, 1:51 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbTkQ72SkDE

I leave it to the reader, to decide whether this is moral, but take no sadistic pleasure in hurting it.


it took me a minute to see where you were going with that one. But I got it. Great post! Sounds like the OP has at least one soul-family member in australia. :)



Hyperborean
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 956
Location: Europe

28 Aug 2016, 2:10 pm

somanyspoons - Thank you for expanding on your earlier post. Now you've done so I see more clearly the point you were making, and your reasons for doing so, which I agree with. The constantly mutating meanings of words and expressions is something to which we should pay close attention; not something that most speakers do. In a similar way to 'spooky', several decades ago in the UK, the word 'wicked' began to be used to mean 'amazing' or 'incredible', in much the same colloquial sense in which 'awesome' is used today - as in 'he mixes a wicked Martini' etc.

I just felt that you were being unnecessarily censorious, given that katy_rome's English is so supple and fluent.



friedmacguffins
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,539

28 Aug 2016, 2:14 pm

skyflower40 wrote:
I just love all of Gods creatures...except spiders, snakes, roaches and bedbugs.

friedmacguffins wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbTkQ72SkDE
I leave it to the reader, to decide whether this is moral, but take no sadistic pleasure in hurting it.

somanyspoons wrote:
it took me a minute to see where you were going with that one.

Some people are even empathetic enough to give water to a thirsty cockroach.

I know this can technically be harmful to humans but still feel that even lower life forms have some kind of emotional life.

somanyspoons wrote:
Great post!


Thanks very much.



katy_rome
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Gender: Female
Posts: 232
Location: UK

28 Aug 2016, 3:33 pm

thank you everyone for these observations -- yes you are all correct that that is how I meant that word, but I am actually really thankful so somanyspoons for pointing this out before I really put my foot in it, in a less friendly context. Please pull me up on anything else, without hesitation!! I honestly had no idea, also I have to now confess before this goes any further that I am not Italian at all (sorry!! !!), I AM mother-tongue English, Scottish to be precise, but have lived in Italy for many, many years, and my husband is German, so I'm tri-lingual and totally confused by now, also not particularly good at being PC (my granny, who I swear was kindness itself, had some sayings that would truly make your hair stand on end).

Also, far from seeing autistic people as kind of 'other', I rather see um.. NTs (have just learnt that word) as 'other', as I believe the whole of humanity is 'on the spectrum', it's just a large spectrum and the autism component is a slice of it.

Anyway I'm starting to suspect I'm on the spectrum myself - i mean in the conventional sense - and that's why I identify so much with my son, and have suffered so much with him when he suffered - thankfully, no longer.

I ADORE the vid with the cockroach. We also like to rescue animals .. the last, which was a hairless small baby mammal, I think was probably a rat, but we kept that piece of information from my husband, who as a farmer's son may not have approved :lol: ANyway he sadly died (the rat not my husband), and we buried him in the garden under a wooden cross, with a ceremony.

Our house is full of lizards, and we bring in fresh vegetation for them (teeming with insect life) and keep saucers of water in corners. Yes they do drink, you can see their little tongues flicking out. They are inside because it's safer than in the garden, where we have two cats. They all have names, and visitors think it's rather odd that as I move around the kitchen I have to carefully step over 'Hermione' or 'Hedwig'. They can sunbathe on the terrace, which is cat-free. My daughter would definitely rescue even cockroaches, though I would have difficulty there (I would have to strategically leave the room to 'go and do something'....)



Hyperborean
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 956
Location: Europe

28 Aug 2016, 4:03 pm

Well, it doesn't surprise me at all to hear that you are a native English speaker. I've studied your posts very carefully, and couldn't find any of the usual grammatical errors or mismatches that Italians generally make when speaking English, however fluently, so I did wonder. (All nationalities tend to make mistakes based on their own linguistic constructions.) Although English is so widely spoken these days, one can't always tell.

Like you I am Scottish (actually the 'Katy' sounds very un-Italian!), and lived in Germany and France for many years, and speak ten European languages, to varying degrees of fluency, so although English is my mother tongue my mind is constantly full of other languages, which has a marked effect on my English. As you say, it's very confusing.

I can't agree with you that the whole of humanity is on the spectrum. It's rather like the expression that one so often hears, 'everyone's a bit autistic', which is completely wrong. It would be more accurate to say that humanity as a whole is neurodiverse, being made up of neurotypicals (NTs) and the neurodivergent - i.e: those on the autism spectrum, or with other neurological or mental conditions. On forums like this, and in fact more generally, language is important, as somanyspoons pointed out.

If your son is diagnosed with AS, then it is more than possible that you are also on the spectrum. You'll find many discussions on the forums here about people whose children get diagnosed, only to find that they themselves are also autistic.

Your house and garden sound like mine - full of wildlife. Birds and other small creatures who die are buried, and everything gets fed, even those creatures that it's probably better not to encourage.

You seem to have found a second home here.



friedmacguffins
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,539

28 Aug 2016, 5:01 pm

My neighbor's son runs into the street. My step niece can't speak.

Is it autism, or something else, too?

I am supposed to be far, into the spectrum, according to written tests, have lots of genetic mutations, and I don't do that stuff. I was never of the opinion that I had a handicap.



somanyspoons
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Jun 2016
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 995

28 Aug 2016, 5:05 pm

katy_rome wrote:
thank you everyone for these observations -- yes you are all correct that that is how I meant that word, but I am actually really thankful so somanyspoons for pointing this out before I really put my foot in it, in a less friendly context. Please pull me up on anything else, without hesitation!! I honestly had no idea, also I have to now confess before this goes any further that I am not Italian at all (sorry!! ! !), I AM mother-tongue English, Scottish to be precise, but have lived in Italy for many, many years, and my husband is German, so I'm tri-lingual and totally confused by now, also not particularly good at being PC (my granny, who I swear was kindness itself, had some sayings that would truly make your hair stand on end).

Also, far from seeing autistic people as kind of 'other', I rather see um.. NTs (have just learnt that word) as 'other', as I believe the whole of humanity is 'on the spectrum', it's just a large spectrum and the autism component is a slice of it.

Anyway I'm starting to suspect I'm on the spectrum myself - i mean in the conventional sense - and that's why I identify so much with my son, and have suffered so much with him when he suffered - thankfully, no longer.

I ADORE the vid with the cockroach. We also like to rescue animals .. the last, which was a hairless small baby mammal, I think was probably a rat, but we kept that piece of information from my husband, who as a farmer's son may not have approved :lol: ANyway he sadly died (the rat not my husband), and we buried him in the garden under a wooden cross, with a ceremony.

Our house is full of lizards, and we bring in fresh vegetation for them (teeming with insect life) and keep saucers of water in corners. Yes they do drink, you can see their little tongues flicking out. They are inside because it's safer than in the garden, where we have two cats. They all have names, and visitors think it's rather odd that as I move around the kitchen I have to carefully step over 'Hermione' or 'Hedwig'. They can sunbathe on the terrace, which is cat-free. My daughter would definitely rescue even cockroaches, though I would have difficulty there (I would have to strategically leave the room to 'go and do something'....)


I'm sorry for the assumption, but I'm also kind of glad I made it. Because you got the gentle explanation instead of scary-angry-face dude who's going to fix the world by correcting people on the internet. A trait of mine which, yes, could probably use some profession help. One thing at a time.