Continuum Concept , or Bring back Swaddling

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That's ok.
About the correlations , yes I know , not easy. Riverotter said the same thing 2 pages back ! !


(Goche21 :I didn't know exclamation marks meant "yelling". I thought they just meant emphasis ! (humorous or irritated , not sure , question of context!) Is it true they indicate yelling ?)

Overall I think it may be similar in complexity to cancer development. (I am not comparing ASDs to cancer.) Our cells are mutating all the time into cancer cells, but usually the body is able to kill the new cell before it can divide and spread. However, if there is an overall state of ill health, or the person is in a stressful life situation, the immune system is weaker and the cancer cell may not be overtaken by the main defenses. Also, many cancers have been found to have both a genetic and an environmental component- a person may walk around with the gene for a particular cancer for years, and only if the environmental factor is present to "turn the gene on" so to speak, will the person actually develop clinical cancer. (there is also the initiator- promotor theory, wherein a cell may become permanently mutated, but never develop into a clinical cancer unless subsequently exposed to another factor that allows it to flourish unchecked). Again, I am not comparing autism spectrum disorders to cancer, or advocating that ASD's are a disease that needs a cure- only suggesting a possibly similar model of complexity.

That's exactly what I was thinking today ; about complexity . It's not just genetics, OR just gluten OR just sensory deprivation .
And yes, agree with Autism not necessarily needing cure, especially now that I've understood that the sensory issues are actually separate , Sensory Processing Disorder , which just happens , for SOME reason , to be co-morbid ( at 75% apparently) with Autistic spectrum difficulties.
Now want to know WHY , of course!!:lol:

In conclusion ; I believe that sensory deprivation ( of standard baby-care involving lots of cot time !) in early babyhood might well be linked to Sensory Processing Disorders in people with ASD. In a pretty simple cause and effect relationship. It's the connection with ASD ,actual Autism , which remains mysterious though undeniable.
What is the connection?
WHY are Sensory Processing Disorders SO closely linked with Autism?

And why did I think that they were "one" ? It wasn't just the fact that their co-morbidity means that people use one as proof of the other all over the place !

Last edited by ouinon on 29 Oct 2007, 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

This morning I realised WHY I thought that Autism and sensory processing disorders seemed to me to all one thing ; it's because when I cut out wheat/gluten both "sets" of symptoms are reduced.
When I cut out gluten I experience improvement in BOTH areas; in sensory processing ( the SID/SPD) and social/communication/cognitive (AS) ! !

Stimming MUCH reduced
Eye contact easier
Less "noise" in head
People more "real" to me
Less perfectionist
"Simpler" around people , understand how "simple friendly presence" is often enough. That not much is actually required. And this does not piss me off!
Calmer, less prone to meltdowns.
More in my body, less up in my head, feel more secure in my skin, more solid , more "here" in this 3D place!

I sometimes argue with myself about that-like the effect on the child's development of a total attention deficit parenting group explaining away their (?) onto some other likely reason. But, I felt that way about EVERYONE...so I really never 'got it' whatever 'it' was at any point in time and was treated like my asking about 'it' whatever 'it' was was 'odd' indicating that other's got an 'it' that I was not priveledged even to the existence of the knowledge of. So...I would say there is something to the labeling of a difference. However, I find autism to be an advancement not a disability. Only being a disability in the workings of a less disabled world. Swaddling by the way is said to build very healthy bones, which is a desireable survivability aspect for any child.

Yes, I agree about autism in itself being perhaps a super thing ; I was still believing that Sensory Processing Disorders were part of autism when I wrote the bit you quote ( because Temple Grandin includes them in her description of Autistic experience, and because are used as diagnostic tool for AS so often,..... and because of having found over the years that cutting out gluten tends to reduce both "sets" of difficulties, ).
Some or many of the cognitive aspects of autism might actually be very valuable abilities , and have been for millenia , but what about the sensory processing difficulties which are so often also present ; wouldn't it be great to eliminate those ? ! !?

Swaddling might be good for bones but I don't think that is all of it. A baby likes to feel held , and swaddling is like an artificial "hold", helping it to construct its sense of physical self.

Last edited by ouinon on 29 Oct 2007, 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

To exclaim is to yell, and that is the root of the word exclamation mark. Yes it means emphasis, but in verbal conversation this is acheived by changing tone and raising ones voice, in writting the ! symbol takes that place.

How you word a sentance, the tone of your writting, ect. tells a person what is important and what isn't, using exclamation marks two or the times each sentance makes it appear like you're aggitated and yelling.

I don't yell when I exclaim about things. But it's true that people, my family mainly, have remarked on my love of exclamation marks . I've used them abundantly for most of my life !
EVERYTHING that I say is important ; but some bits are more important than others ! !

I suspect it's like the written equivalent of my use of repetition when speaking , as if I am not heard , almost as if I don't hear myself ,unless I "insist",in some way.
I like exclamation marks. I'd feel not very "me", rather "sober" and sensible and repressed if wrote without them. They make up for all my hand waving and expressive gestures !!Which my family has also unfavourably remarked on on several occasions.


But, please don't let this issue distract from discussion of whether Sensory Processing Disorders could be prevented by abandoning the widespread practice of putting babies down in quiet corners when not actually feeding or changing them, thus depriving them of much of the sensory information they need to construct solid connections with their physical self and to integrate sensory data in a balanced fashion.

Not sure how relevant this is but I have very bad Sensory Processing Disorder
And I was never held as a child, but apparently that was my fault from birth onwards
I would cry when some one tried to touch me. So I think I was born with it

Or I was a much better judge of people at birth that I am now

My mother too said that I stretched away , twisted away when she held me , and I thought she meant from birth, but it wasn't straight away. She can't , unfortunately, remember when, but "some time after" , so that it is possible that to my AS brain, extra sensitive to stuff etc , the aeons of time which a week or 10 days represent to a new born baby, ( imagine a chimpanzee left alone from birth to 2 weeks except for highly restricted feeding times ; 20/10 minutes each breast [can you imagine , the madness!] would probably already be a "bit" distressed!!) , even more so one who is lying in a silent immobile cot from birth, was more than enough for me to "deregulate" . IF she had not then felt rejected by my movement, but insisted , perhaps the disconnection/sensory processing diffficulty could still have been set right.

Last edited by ouinon on 29 Oct 2007, 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I'm wondering where you all got this parenting advice. I know that is how they where told to parent decades ago, but not now. My niece and nephews were never in their cribs or playpens unless they were sleeping, and then they were swaddled.

When they were awake, if they weren't being held they were in swings or exisaucers with lots of brightly colored, different textured toys within their grasp for them to manipulate or chew. I think parenting advice has shifted to another direction, with all of this baby stimulation advice. Even twenty years ago when I was a baby, my mom has said that I was held almost always for the first couple of months, either in someones arms, or in a sling.

Then you were very lucky.
I hardly ever see any babies being carried; it is still so unusual to see babies in slings/carriers that it looks exceptionally bohemian/alternative etc. Most babies are in prams/pushchairs.
And it's the same in most homes , in "recliner" things with inanimate plastic, or wooden if want to be more pc, toys attached to the frames, left to themselves while mothers/carers do other things. Mothers don't like to leave their baby on the floor because they might get into trouble , or dirty, and yet they won't carry them , so they make brightly coloured restrainers for them instead.
Even breastfeeding is a massively minority activity. And the mothers who wonder round their houses with their baby in a sling , or over their hips , are still so unusual they are part of the new-age/radical movement( who have home births , VERY VERY rare , and breastfeed till child wants to wean and not before)
I don't know where people get the idea that mothers are carrying their babies. They put them down, in these "swing" things , with objects attached , and buttons to press perhaps. Like slightly improved cots!! Or in inflatable plastic "play pools" with billions of garishly coloured objects stuck all over it. But the baby is still not MOVING. All the much vaunted "mental stimulation" of colourful toys is as nothing compared to the apparently impossible goal of carrying babies.
Seriously I hardly ever see it. Most babies are in pushchairs , or gazing at an object in a swingy cot. Most modern babies' sensory stimulation and construction seems to be restricted to the visual,( and even then it's from a fixed viewpoint like a video game, rather than from a moving position), or touching with fingers( which I got too !) or chewing. Their bodies hardly ever move, outside of changing and feeding rituals .They can't move!! A baby can not move much until 3-4 months when starts to roll and pull itself forward. It needs to "stay" attached to its mother as long as possible so as to get that necessary movement, as they did for many hundreds of thousands of years before sedentarisation.
And you say " when awake" , but why don't mothers carry babies when asleep? Why put babies down for sleep ? It just causes immense problems later on, for the toddlers who can't fall asleep without exactly the right night light , musical animal, fluffy toys , the door open just like that , the mother there until fall asleep etc.

Last edited by ouinon on 29 Oct 2007, 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

In fact i think the actual reality of baby care as it exists in the West would only be really clear IF suddenly every mother/father/principal carer who works outside the home had to take their baby to work with them. All those babies currently lying around WATCHING and not moving ,in reassuringly colourful playpools/playmats/swing things at the creche/neighbour who looks after 2 or 3 at a time, would become visible, in all their immobile exclusion, like disabled people .

But I agree it's much easier to think that it is all genetics. Because don't have to think that it might be worth all the effort of changing things. If it's "just" genes can just forget about it.
I'm aware of this since starting this thread.
It's so tiring, stressful, to think that something in the environment could actually make a difference. I loved the lightness of thinking oh it's a genetic thing. When I first thought I had aspergers and read posts on here so sure of the safely genetic nature of it I loved thinking , oh it's nobodies fault. I loved that feeling. I felt like celebrating. "It's the fault of the big bad old gene again! Hooray!"
Whereas believing that something might be the result of some aspect of society is so exhausting. Heavy. Guilt inducing.

It would be so lovely to be persuaded that it really is all genetic. That we can't do ANYTHING about it.

Anyone ?!

I have the very strong feeling that AS is genetic. My 2 kids were carried in slings until they were 2yo, my son breastfed until 3.5 and my daughter still feeds, nearly 4. We have a family bed and we homeschool. My son has AS, my daughter has sensory issues and both myself and husband have strong AS traits. I couldn't parent in the mainstream way because I empathised so strongly with my little ones, I couldn't put routine over their need for comfort. So in our case attachment parenting did not prevent AS, but because of our values, I think our kids have a very happy home life, being in the outside world can be stressful but when we come home it's a real sanctuary where everyone revives in the affection of our family. It has certainly made our AS journey much calmer.

Okay, I'm playing devil's advocate.

What if we are born AS and our sensory issues caused some of the alleged neglect. (I am not by any means discounting that there was some real neglect going on with some of you.) But thinking back to how my son was as a baby. Constantly screaming and crying as if just existing in this universe was painful in some way. He cried only slightly less when I actually held him all the time, so that was the lesser of the two evils. But for an NT mother with an AS and/or sensory integration child, there might not be the subtle difference for them. For a mom who is used to functioning under sleep deprivation conditions occasionally and is ultra sensitive to sensory things anyway, these subtle differences are huge. So what I am saying is that an NT mom might put the baby down and "ignore" it because it never stops crying no matter what she does to help. An AS mom might be prone to this as well because of sound sensory issues. I know there were times when I just wanted to abandon the whole mom thing because my son's issues were so severe!

Of course "cute" and more interactive babies get held more!